An evening that went very bad

Depression/anxiety may have touched your family, your friends, yourself; what helps you to deal with it? Sharing is caring!

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BrokenPen
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:18 am

An evening that went very bad

Postby BrokenPen » Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:41 am

Some of you may know my previous posts talking about how my girlfriend suffers from Bipolar Depression. Well, recently, things took a pretty bad turn.

She always wanted to be in software development. But she can't get the funds together because she already has student debt. So she found this program with this company called "intraedge" but she's having such a difficult time with it, thus the reason for my forum post. And things escalated to the point where she was so down on herself that she had a breakdown. Then that quickly turned to anger where she was saying how much of a loser she is and that she's worthless. And she demanded that I say that to her otherwise I'm too weak for her. Finally, it ended with her leaving the room and coming back with pillows and a blanket and throwing them on the couch and saying, "until you say that I am a loser and worthless, you can stay out here on the couch."

Sitting out in the living area and thinking about how bad I messed up I couldn't help but look at my phone and how a text she sent read, "You really are weak."

Now, I don't know what to do.

Spleefy
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:54 am

Re: An evening that went very bad

Postby Spleefy » Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:33 am

Hi BrokenPen,

Sorry to hear about your situation.

With depression and bipolar, you get your emotional swings, ups and downs. Sounds like she is having one of those down moments.

Even if you need to sleep on the sofa for weeks or months, so be it. But whatever you do don’t give into her self-defeating thoughts. Just say, "sorry, my love, but I cannot say those things because I do not agree with those statements." Keep strong. Continue giving her love and support. Keep reminding her of her good qualities.

You can even ask her why she thinks she is a loser and worthless. Challenge her statements! What is she basing those statements on? Where is the evidence? She is talking rubbish right now, so you just need to keep level headed.

I remember when I used to tell myself that nonsense all the time. After a while, you start to believe it. You start to believe everything you tell yourself. You start to believe you are worthless. Don’t take the bait. Don't entertain her irrational behavior otherwise you become a part of the problem, not the solution.

All the best.
Jehovah is close to the brokenhearted; he saves those who are crushed in spirit.—Psalm 34:18

BrokenPen
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:18 am

Re: An evening that went very bad

Postby BrokenPen » Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:19 pm

Spleefy wrote:Hi BrokenPen,

Sorry to hear about your situation.

With depression and bipolar, you get your emotional swings, ups and downs. Sounds like she is having one of those down moments.

Even if you need to sleep on the sofa for weeks or months, so be it. But whatever you do don’t give into her self-defeating thoughts. Just say, "sorry, my love, but I cannot say those things because I do not agree with those statements." Keep strong. Continue giving her love and support. Keep reminding her of her good qualities.

You can even ask her why she thinks she is a loser and worthless. Challenge her statements! What is she basing those statements on? Where is the evidence? She is talking rubbish right now, so you just need to keep level headed.

I remember when I used to tell myself that nonsense all the time. After a while, you start to believe it. You start to believe everything you tell yourself. You start to believe you are worthless. Don’t take the bait. Don't entertain her irrational behavior otherwise you become a part of the problem, not the solution.

All the best.


Tried not to, unfortunately, things kind of got worse. She's now gotten to a rather fatalistic, if not suicidal, state of mind. Basically, she said this; "If I can't have a career in software development or be rich then I may as well be dead. In fact, I'm already dead. I'm just waiting for my body to catch up with me."

Spleefy
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:54 am

Re: An evening that went very bad

Postby Spleefy » Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:36 am

That is really tragic. Perhaps remind her that there is so much in life that she can enjoy beyond just work and money. Work and money are only a small part of our lives—at least they should be.

Do you think her priorities are centered on a career and material riches to feel validated?

It sounds like it based on that statement she made. If so, I would find ways to help her reshape those priorities and show her that she doesn’t need those things to be a worthy person.

I’m sure she has so many great qualities and a lovely character. These thing are more important than material gains or a big career. This is not to say she can’t get into software development, if that is her goal. Perhaps remind her of this? Remind her that she can still have that career she wants, but right now she needs to focus on her well-being. It is impossible to do her job well or get into software development is she is emotionally unstable.

It is never easy to know what to say or do when someone is in a fatalistic state of mind, suicidal and in a highly irrational mindset. It seems no matter what you say, they will stubbornly maintain their irrational thought patterns and state them as though they are facts.

But just keep patient and continue giving her love, as I’m sure you already doing. Sometimes all we can do is just wait until that person gets through it and is in a better frame of mind to accept a more rational viewpoint.

If things get critical and you feel her life is threatened, I wouldn’t hesitate to check her into hospital. Yes, she will probably “hate” you for it, but you love her and you’ll do anything to protect her, even against herself. Only you’ll be able to determine this. Just keep plugged in and monitor her.
Jehovah is close to the brokenhearted; he saves those who are crushed in spirit.—Psalm 34:18

BrokenPen
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:18 am

Re: An evening that went very bad

Postby BrokenPen » Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:27 pm

Spleefy wrote:That is really tragic. Perhaps remind her that there is so much in life that she can enjoy beyond just work and money. Work and money are only a small part of our lives—at least they should be.

Do you think her priorities are centered on a career and material riches to feel validated?

It sounds like it based on that statement she made. If so, I would find ways to help her reshape those priorities and show her that she doesn’t need those things to be a worthy person.

I’m sure she has so many great qualities and a lovely character. These thing are more important than material gains or a big career. This is not to say she can’t get into software development, if that is her goal. Perhaps remind her of this? Remind her that she can still have that career she wants, but right now she needs to focus on her well-being. It is impossible to do her job well or get into software development is she is emotionally unstable.

It is never easy to know what to say or do when someone is in a fatalistic state of mind, suicidal and in a highly irrational mindset. It seems no matter what you say, they will stubbornly maintain their irrational thought patterns and state them as though they are facts.

But just keep patient and continue giving her love, as I’m sure you already doing. Sometimes all we can do is just wait until that person gets through it and is in a better frame of mind to accept a more rational viewpoint.

If things get critical and you feel her life is threatened, I wouldn’t hesitate to check her into hospital. Yes, she will probably “hate” you for it, but you love her and you’ll do anything to protect her, even against herself. Only you’ll be able to determine this. Just keep plugged in and monitor her.


It's not just those things, but it seems like she wants it all or nothing at all. She wants a career, a house, a family, and to be rich.

But she still is in this fatalistic state of mind in which she said, "The only dream I have now is to die in my sleep."

I try to tell her that I love her and that I'm here for her but she keeps comparing me to her ex by saying, "you won't put up with this forever. You'll get tired of me. You'll get tired of my anger, my sadness, my struggling and my constant depression. You'll find some other woman and leave me for her just like my ex did."

Spleefy
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:54 am

Re: An evening that went very bad

Postby Spleefy » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:41 am

Perhaps just say something along the lines of, “I’m sorry to disappoint you, but I’m here to stay. So you are stuck with me.” Or maybe, “nobody can predict the future, but I’m here now, aren’t I?”

The former statement is more reassuring whereas the latter statement is making a rational and factual statement. I personally would probably say the latter because most people, especially in an irrational state, become more argumentative when you give them reassurance. They will always debate you on it, as if to fish for more reassurance. But often not matter how much reassurance you give them, they will just keep fishing for more. So I would just stick to rational and factual statements rather than playing silly games.

I think I mentioned it before, but just remind her that nothing is stopping her from achieving those goals. But as of right now, she can’t possibly accomplish those things in her current state. She is not yet ready for a family, not in this state of mind. Children need to be raised in an emotionally and financially stable environment. She has lot of personal development work to do before she even thinks about family.

A career is fine, but an employer will need staff that are reliable and stable. She is a mess at the moment.

A house will come once she has a stable job and saves money.

Being rich… well that is something different altogether. Being rich is for the minority. Most people work to make ends meet or at most to be comfortable if they live modestly. This is not to say she can’t be rich if she wanted it bad enough. But that will take hard work and a lot of time. First, however, she will need to be emotionally stable before she can chase for riches.

Just keep things rational and factual with her whilst continuing to give her love and support. Have you encouraged her to get formal support? By the sounds of it, she need a lot of it.

You have your work cut out for you. Good luck, mate.
Jehovah is close to the brokenhearted; he saves those who are crushed in spirit.—Psalm 34:18

BrokenPen
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:18 am

Re: An evening that went very bad

Postby BrokenPen » Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:49 am

Spleefy wrote:Perhaps just say something along the lines of, “I’m sorry to disappoint you, but I’m here to stay. So you are stuck with me.” Or maybe, “nobody can predict the future, but I’m here now, aren’t I?”

The former statement is more reassuring whereas the latter statement is making a rational and factual statement. I personally would probably say the latter because most people, especially in an irrational state, become more argumentative when you give them reassurance. They will always debate you on it, as if to fish for more reassurance. But often not matter how much reassurance you give them, they will just keep fishing for more. So I would just stick to rational and factual statements rather than playing silly games.

I think I mentioned it before, but just remind her that nothing is stopping her from achieving those goals. But as of right now, she can’t possibly accomplish those things in her current state. She is not yet ready for a family, not in this state of mind. Children need to be raised in an emotionally and financially stable environment. She has lot of personal development work to do before she even thinks about family.

A career is fine, but an employer will need staff that are reliable and stable. She is a mess at the moment.

A house will come once she has a stable job and saves money.

Being rich… well that is something different altogether. Being rich is for the minority. Most people work to make ends meet or at most to be comfortable if they live modestly. This is not to say she can’t be rich if she wanted it bad enough. But that will take hard work and a lot of time. First, however, she will need to be emotionally stable before she can chase for riches.

Just keep things rational and factual with her whilst continuing to give her love and support. Have you encouraged her to get formal support? By the sounds of it, she need a lot of it.

You have your work cut out for you. Good luck, mate.


Yup, I am also trying to get her to go to therapy but she said something that really made me scratch my head.

She said, "Therapy just teaches people to be okay with the fact that their lives suck."

What'd you say to that?

Spleefy
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:54 am

Re: An evening that went very bad

Postby Spleefy » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:58 am

She isn’t thinking clearly right now because of her head space, so much of what she says will be highly irrational and distorted.

I would challenge her statement. What does she mean by her statement? In what way does it teach people this? If one believes their life sucks, then it is their responsibility to flip the script--nobody can do that for us. A therapist can only assist someone to make improvements in their lives, to see things from a healthier and more productive perspective, and to teach them healthier ways to cope with adversity, etc.

Therapy isn’t a panacea for all mental health issues, but it does have a lot to offer. And not everybody will find therapy useful. Also, one needs to realize that no two therapist will be the same. It’s like finding a marriage partner—the therapist and client need to have some compatibility and connection. In other words, a client may not connect with the first therapist they see.

Many people do find therapy useful. However, the therapist is not a magician. The client needs to also have the right attitude and pull their weight in their own health. The client cannot expect the therapist to perform miracles.

This is where a lot of people will blame the therapist when, in fact, if the therapy didn’t work, it could possibly be because the client didn’t put in the hard work to help themselves and apply what they were taught at therapy. For therapy to work, the client needs to work it, and to give it time to work.

All she can do is give it a go. There will be no harm in it. If she doesn't find it beneficial at this point in time, she can try something else. It's important to sometimes give things a proper go before we pass judgement on something.

I hope you can eventually get through to her. I know it won't be easy. When someone's thinking is highly distorted, it is like banging your head against a brick wall each time you try to reason with that person. It is exceedingly frustrating. I feel for you! But hang in there.
Jehovah is close to the brokenhearted; he saves those who are crushed in spirit.—Psalm 34:18

Ang0307
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:29 am

Re: An evening that went very bad

Postby Ang0307 » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:00 am

Hey there. I want to give you my thoughts as I've struggled with depression for a long time. I've also had struggles with being on the wrong types of medication etc. When your partner is going through these episodes it can be very hard. As time goes on, that person's behavior can start to break you down as well. Not everyone can handle these kind of situations so I commend you for that. The thing is that a partner can be patient, supportive, understanding etc but it does not matter because if the person is battling their own demons it is something that they themselves have to figure out. Does she apologize after these types of events occur? Does she place herself as the victim? Does she say that she is trying to get help to get better? Is there any kind of conversation after? I am asking this because her response to what occurred is important. It says where she is in terms of mental health. No one should be subjected to say negative things to their partner whether they demand it or not. In that situation she is projecting her energy and her emotions onto you. You are not a reflection of what she is going through and what you say or do not say on her terms does not define who you are. There were times when I'd FLIP out, I mean it was bad. I would calm down and after that I'd feel HORRIBLE. My fiance over time began to be depressed because of what I transferred over to him in terms of emotions. He witnessed my on and off emotions and times when I'd be sweet, to angry, sad and crying to times I felt like I wanted to die. The important thing in this whole situation is that one you do not let someone else, whether you love them or not treat you in a way that disregards who you are and your place in the relationship ..especially when you are trying to cope and be supportive. Two, her response to her behaviour is important( aftermath) because again it says where she is with how she views the situation, YOU and how she values herself' three and this is only my opinion..is that..you should not feel inferior or incompetent or any of that. Again it takes a strong individual to stick through these kinds of situations. When I said things to my fiance after I'd calmed down id come back to reality and I'd think about everything that just happened. I apologized and we spoke about what had happened because it was important to me that he knew my intentions were not to hurt him and I was COMPLETELY out of line. I'd also explain how I felt in the moment. I made a choice..because I saw what it was doing to him..and I could not let that be. I started to make a plan for myself in the times I felt ok. I decided I needed to heal and get help because sorry was not going to be a word of the day in my relationship. Continue to be supportive, and kind as you are..but please find out what her response is to the way it also makes you feel as well..because I don't want you to change or think any less of yourself..I know how it feels and to walk on egg shells because you never know what version of them you are going to get. I was a wreck to deal with..but thank God my man was there..I never expected anyone to stay with me through that..I could barely handle myself muchless someone else being involved. It is a tough situation. She is going through emotional stages and you are there for the ride..she is having a hard time and again I commend you for being the person you are to support her. Just remember that you are important too. Don't lose yourself in the process and stay strong.

Ang0307
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:29 am

Re: An evening that went very bad

Postby Ang0307 » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:17 am

[quote="Ang0307"]Hey there. I want to give you my thoughts as I've struggled with depression for a long time. I've also had struggles with being on the wrong types of medication etc. When your partner is going through these episodes it can be very hard. As time goes on, that person's behavior can start to break you down as well. Not everyone can handle these kind of situations so I commend you for that. The thing is that a partner can be patient, supportive, understanding etc but it does not matter because if the person is battling their own demons it is something that they themselves have to figure out. Does she apologize after these types of events occur? Does she place herself as the victim? Does she say that she is trying to get help to get better? Is there any kind of conversation after? I am asking this because her response to what occurred is important. It says where she is in terms of mental health. No one should be subjected to say negative things to their partner whether they demand it or not. In that situation she is projecting her energy and her emotions onto you. You are not a reflection of what she is going through and what you say or do not say on her terms does not define who you are. There were times when I'd FLIP out, I mean it was bad. I would calm down and after that I'd feel HORRIBLE. My fiance over time began to be depressed because of what I transferred over to him in terms of emotions. He witnessed my on and off emotions and times when I'd be sweet, to angry, sad and crying to times I felt like I wanted to die. The important thing in this whole situation is that one you do not let someone else, whether you love them or not treat you in a way that disregards who you are and your place in the relationship ..especially when you are trying to cope and be supportive. Two, her response to her behaviour is important( aftermath) because again it says where she is with how she views the situation, YOU and how she values herself' three and this is only my opinion..is that..you should not feel inferior or incompetent or any of that. Again it takes a strong individual to stick through these kinds of situations. When I said things to my fiance after I'd calmed down id come back to reality and I'd think about everything that just happened. I apologized and we spoke about what had happened because it was important to me that he knew my intentions were not to hurt him and I was COMPLETELY out of line. I'd also explain how I felt in the moment. I made a choice..because I saw what it was doing to him..and I could not let that be. I started to make a plan for myself in the times I felt ok. I decided I needed to heal and get help because sorry was not going to be a word of the day in my relationship. Continue to be supportive, and kind as you are..but please find out what her response is to the way it also makes you feel as well..because I don't want you to change or think any less of yourself..I know how it feels and to walk on egg shells because you never know what version of them you are going to get. I was a wreck to deal with..but thank God my man was there..I never expected anyone to stay with me through that..I could barely handle myself muchless someone else being involved. It is a tough situation. She is going through emotional stages and you are there for the ride..she is having a hard time and again I commend you for being the person you are to support her. Just remember that you are important too. Don't lose yourself in the process and stay strong. If you can I'd just be calm and tell her that together you will find a way to make it happen, and tell her you are not going to say those things because they have no validity because they are untrue and it is not your perspective of her. Words only mean something if they have validity and substance. You can't let ANYONE have the power to control how you feel about yourself based on words that are coming from someone who truly does not mean them. Are you weak? Hell no! Not everyone can handle being in your shoes. That is a fact. Staying with her is not a sign of weakness either. It means you have a heart and are supportive because you want to see the person you love thrive in life and you are supportive. Be strong enough to take those words with a grain of salt. You also have to know when it is too much. Because again you also need to protect yourself. As long as you stand strong and know who you are and why you are there, do not doubt your character. You did not mess up, and thinking you did somehow ( when you didn't) is almost putting yourself in the same position as her because you are both self degrading yourselves in someway. I hope this makes sense. Keep your head up. It is all in our way of thinking. Turn it around because I know you can!

BrokenPen
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:18 am

Re: An evening that went very bad

Postby BrokenPen » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:09 pm

Thank you everyone for your support.

I wish that I could say that things have gotten better but the truth is that it hasn't.

Just today, she reached another depressive slump.

It began with the news that someone won the mega millions. And this kind of started her into her depressive slump because she wants to win something so that she can start herself on a career path to software development. Or enough to retire completely and live a jet setter type of life.

And I know that when handling one who has similar issues as Luna I shouldn’t offer solutions or say that she has anything to live for. But that backfired.

She said “all you do is dig there with your head down and just take whatever I say to you and that’s why you’re not strong enough for me. And I think the only reason your with me is because crazy pussy us better than none.”

I tell this to my friends and a lot of them seem to agree that this is an abusive relationship. Do you all think this is abusive? or is it just part of being with someone struggling with bipolar depression?

Spleefy
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:54 am

Re: An evening that went very bad

Postby Spleefy » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:36 am

Hi BrokePen,

Based on what you’ve said now and in other posts, Luna has unrealistic expectations. She is so focused on the material side of life to the point of making herself miserable, hostile, etc.

You would know whether or not you are in an abusive relationship.

If your partner is habitually being nasty to you, calling you names, putting you down, and is demeaning, then I would consider that an abusive or toxic relationship. Nobody deserves to be treated like that, especially by their partner. It is unacceptable.

It could be her personality, bipolar, or both. I would imagine that the bipolar is contributing to her irrational and immature behavior and outlook.

This is entirely up to you, my friend. But if she said to me what she just did to you, I would tell her politely--but make it very clear--that it is not okay to talk like that to you. She disrespected you, and she just made herself look like a trashy person. I’m not saying she is, but that type of talk is trashy.

It seems like it would be a good idea for you to establish some boundaries.

I actually admire your perseverance and the love and support you are giving to your girlfriend. She is lucky to have someone like you. It takes courage and patience in itself to be in a relationship that you are in right now. In my view, you are strong enough because you’ve stuck it out—something a lot of people probably would not do in your situation.

So when she calls you “weak” or that you are “not strong enough for her”, just remember that it is just a reflection of how she feels about herself. It really is! I agree with Ang0307 that she is just “projecting her emotions onto you.” And, as Ang said, it does take a strong individual to endure what you are enduring.

Other than that, I really have no idea what you can say or do about her dream career and financial riches. It is something she herself needs to put into perspective. If she wants to achieve these things, then she needs to find a way to make it happen. But what is not okay is to take her frustrations of not achieving her goals out on you. You are not her punching bag, so make that clear to her.

That is why, as I said before, you should look into establishing boundaries before things get more out of hand with how she talks to you.

Keep us all posted, and feel free to get stuff off your chest whenever you feel the need. It must be taking its toll on you. We are here for you and your girlfriend, mate! I hope Luna finds peace, and your relationship with her improves.
Jehovah is close to the brokenhearted; he saves those who are crushed in spirit.—Psalm 34:18

Ang0307
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:29 am

Re: An evening that went very bad

Postby Ang0307 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:30 am

Hello. I agree. Her expectations and all of the other behaviors sound absolutely awful. It seems like you are dealing with someone who is victimizing themselves and wallowing in self pity. These are childish tantrums and I don't know how you deal. Everyone goes through humps in their life and sometimes people need to get through it thdmselves and focus on healing. She is hurting you and bringing you down. It just isn't right. I hope this doesn't offend you. I have seen alot and just hearing this makes me go back to times I was surrounded by toxic people who I thought I could " fix" or help. It ended up tearing me apart and I became a recluse. I want the best for you and being with her isn't positive.

BrokenPen
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:18 am

Re: An evening that went very bad

Postby BrokenPen » Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:22 pm

Thank you everyone for the words that you've shared in this post. I've tried to push through these bad times but often the bad times do come back. Such as recently, things looked like they were getting better. My girlfriend was employed but then it started to go down hill from there because the job wasn't doing very much for her mental health. It got to the point where she had to leave because the stress was breaking her. It's been like that at several jobs but I think it's because her sensitivity to stress is a lot lower than most people. It just gets worse when she's job hunting and does interviews. And she takes rejections pretty hard.

Such as today, she had been applying at this company where she wanted to work and she managed to get an interview. But then they reached out with an email telling her that she didn't get the job. And now, she's taking it pretty hard.

It's gotten to the point where she simply clapped her hands and said, "That's it....I give up...I give up on everything...I surrender...I'm ready to die...now I just want my body to catch up with me."

Makes me wish I were a therapist so I could help her more than I can right now.

Ang0307
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:29 am

I want to share what I did that may help.

Postby Ang0307 » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:21 pm

Hi there. So it's been awhile and the last time I sent a message I was also struggling. I want to share what I've been dealing with in relation to your delemma and how I found relief. I struggeld with trauma, abuse, low self esteem, acceptance ( wanting to be or feel loved), I always imagined my life on a much larger scale in my mind through daydreams and such..and used it as a place to feel happy. Thinking id never truly be capable of the thoughts I desperately wished to be true. I would get angry and then cry and it was bad. I went through alot and it was horrible. I fought to get better by trying over 6 medications, TMS, Psychiatry etc. I lived on eggshells. I hated my life but knew deep inside I had a bigger purpose and there was something better. I just didn't know how to get there. One day I was thinking to myself. " if I can change a thought..that would change an outcome..and if I change my negative self beliefs into positivy I can change my life!" I realized that i was the way I was because subconsciously memories and trauma from when I was young until now have snowballed. I was never able to process them and those negative self beliefs grew to be a pattern which in turn is why my reality is what it is. I hope that makes sense. I started listening to affirmations. The definition of that is " positive words in repetition" that's it. I couldn't just start with positive words. I started listening to affirmations that helped me to rid my negative thoughts and the toxic past I experienced. I listened to them with headphones every night. The words go to your subconscious and they entrain new self beliefs. Ones that help to better you. Then i found another. One that aligned with what i want to be true in my life. For example " I am happy. I am free. I let go of depression. I am confident. " We say them as if they already are. Again when you listen while you are sleeping it goes to your subconscious. After all I've tried this is the first thing beside tms that has helped me so immensely. It isn't pseudo science or based on any religion. It is about connecting with your subconscious self to change negative thoughts into positive. If you have any questions let me know.


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