Clinical, or environmental, does it matter ?

[Itsonlyme]

I have actually had my blood chemicals checked for several markers of depression, and my levels were fairly normal.

I've never thought (nor did my Dr's) that I had a chemical imbalance, but rather, that I was just really sad, and lonely, over external things, of which I have little to no control.

And unfortunately, they can't just give you a pill for that.... although I really don't like prescription meds anyway.

Do we have both groups here ? How much help can these groups be to each other ?

Much thanks.

[Itsonlyme]

Nobody ?

I'm assuming everyone on this forum is suffering from one or the other ?

Is it your chemical balance ? Or just a POS life in general ?

Mine is definitely the latter....

[Itsonlyme]

Kind of surprised I can't get a reply to this post, as in one way or another, it pertains to every single person here.....

As I have said, my depression is definitely of the environmental / situational type. My blood chemicals are normal.
Not saying one type of depression is better or worse than the other.
Either way, depression just sucks, right ?

Somebody ?

[Doogie]

For some I don't think they know. For me, it was both. I was betrayed by the one I love, went on antidepressants, now no matter how much she wants to make amends...I just don't feel enjoyment anymore. There are no pills to take, nothing that can be talked through...my brain just will not tell me or make me feel happy about pretty much anything. It is what it is until the day I die now. Kinda sucks...feels like such a wasted life....just a matter of coping now I guess.

[lili]

hi. i am sort of new here. I signed up in May. Posted. did not get a reply. So I edited out what I wrote. Because not getting a reply was triggering. Someone eventuall did reply. But by then I was gone. I am sorry you did not get an answer for many days. I honetly believe this is a good place. But it probably is not well travelled. Not many people to read the posts and reply quickly. But eventually Doogie did reply. then I.

I do not know the answer to your question. But I will write what I think about depression. So you do not get the answer you seek. But the opinion of a wacky lady, moi I think there can be a number of causes for depression. Biological for sure. But I do not think the reason is so important. What is important is the suffering it causes. And that people like you are heard. I have suffered all my life. I hope you find the peace you deserve. I want to offer one thing to you in case you may need to hear it. I strongly feel that people's challenges do not in any way reflect the light and strength that they are. Just as the rock one may carry up a mountain is not them. The mountain is not them. Nor is the rock. I dont know if this makes sense. But I have noticed too many people who define themselves by the pain they suffer. Myself included. Again I am SO sorry it took so long for someone to answer. But now you have 2 answers.

[Doogie]

Hi lili,

Sorry no one replied to your post...that was before I joined. I try to post when I can..if you repost I promise I will reply.

[Ieris]

Hello Doogie,

I still remember you from your first post. There are always new comers here but you've stuck around helping others so its always nice to see a name I recognise come up in posts. You've been giving good advice and sound so positive but i was just wondering how things are with you? I hope you are in a better place since you first joined

[Itsonlyme]

Well thank you Doogie and Lili

I actually had a pretty good day today in that the weather was nice enough, that I got to get out and feed my addiction.... backpacking, and photography

Interestingly, any time my heart and lungs are working at 90+% of max output, the only thing I worry about, is getting enough oxygen, and pacing myself LOL

Only downside is the other 20+ hrs in a day

Problem is, even while I do have stuff I enjoy, the big underlying stuff just won't go away Its always there in the back ground, even if I'm just not focused on it completely.

~~~~~~~~~~
Oh, so everyone has heard the saying, "Nothing lasts forever"...... and of course this is true whether good, or bad.

But when your looking at something such as an ocean rock formation, that could have taken 10's of thousands of years to form, you don't really expect it to change in your life time, right ?

So once upon a time there was this rock, with a big awesome spike, at Bodega Bay CA. I used to photograph it very often... different lighting, different techniques, and so on. I took probably 500 shots of this rock, trying to get the best shot I could.

This one was certainly in the top 5....

But here's the kicker, I finally get my new camera and lens, go back to that spot to try again, and... What the... ? Ahhhh. the spire had fractured, and was much shorter, and jagged Just not the same any more.

Kind of teaches us a little lesson about assuming anything is permanent, right ?

[Doogie]

Thanks Ieris,

Sorry for taking your post on a tangent Itsonlyme.

I would say acceptance is best how to describe how I am...I do really miss the old me though. Ever since I was young I had an insatiable fascination with the world. I was always learning and trying new things, managed to be one of the fastest in our company to be promoted so many times..I was full of life. Now I have absolutely no interest (no enjoyment) in anything. I get up go to work come home do the chores go to bed....repeat. I was only 6 weeks on paxil until I finally got all the truth and lies sorted out and that's it...shows over for me. If I would have stuck to leaving her at the first of our relationship I would be fine....but she never changed as she said...it only got worse...much worse.

I really don't see a purpose, except that I love my kids so that's why I do what I do. The ironic part is that my wife (for all that she done to me) didn't have anyone treat her well, and the one person that really did love her isn't capable of it anymore from what she done.

I'm just glad I can offer some (hopefully) helpful advice to people.

[100footpole]

Doogie,

I think this tangent is apropos to chemical vs. psychological.

Yesterday I was working a puzzle in a variety puzzle magazine. I came to a place where I thought it was messed up. I couldn't find the answer. Put it down and came back to it this morning. Was still messed up, but I decided to keep going in a different place so I could figure out was wrong.

Long story made short ... finished the puzzle and couldn't find the place that I thought was messed up.

I used to be able to do stuff like that quickly and straight through. That was reflected in my work and potential. Since the middle of September I've felt useless, I'm unemployed, and the couple of times I've interviewed have been terrible. Like the puzzle, or a bad dream, I know there is something I should do or say. The anxiety kicks in and I'm happiest just leaving. Naturally no calls back .

I've been through this a couple of times before ... I know it will work out. Last time was in 2008. Took me a year and a half to get it back together. I kept trying ... going through the motions ... until things "worked out" and I was OK again.

Its been three years of pretty good ... but not as good as when I was 30 and my son had just been born . You give great advice. And I thankyou for these last posts. You encouraged me to stay on this site with your posts on Star's smile thread.

If you can talk to a therapist who is centered on the short run. CBT Therapy gets you back in the show brother.

My dr. put me on Paxil in '88. It did help, but I really didn't like the way the drug made me feel. I did some research and picked some new drugs. Have a weird relationship with my Dr. now. I don't trust him to prescribe, but I do trust him to talk to me about effects. I'm currently on Prozac and Buspar ... which I consider my sacraments ... but I am non-ecumenical. IMHO a therapist can work with your Dr. to find your right "sacraments" and give you the "catechism" that will allow you to start feeling like you have some control over your feelings.

I think they answer to the question .... like most questions ... is "both". I know that I work better with my drugs, but I don't want to try to "fix" myself by finding the "perfect" cocktail ... I think that's what takes the Hollywood types (Michael Jackson, John Belushi, all those B-List talking heads) over the edge. There is a lot to be said about the satisfaction of finding a path that works for you.

Keep on hanging brother. So far things have been working themselves out .

[Doogie]

Interviewing can be hard. I've been with the same company for 20 years so it's been a while, but I have given quite a few. I remember my first few interviews I was in just after I graduated college....they were quite intimidating and some asked some really dumb questions. A lot of people (I would say the majority) are horrible at giving interviews. They ask the standard issue questions that have no bearing on the role, ask questions that are convoluted yet are expecting a set answer, or act like you're on trial. Best advice I can give on interviews is do some research on the company before hand, prepare some questions to ask (ok to have them wrote down), and try and get a read on the individual as people have a tendency to hire people that are like them (I could go on about the different personality styles lol). And if they ask a question, don't be afraid to answer the question and return a question back (but don't answer a question with a question lol). If you have any questions, etc let me know and I'll be glad to offer what I can.

Thanks on the CBT...I've researched quite a bit on it. Actually, I have spent the last 7 years looking for a way to reverse the effects of the 6 weeks on Paxil....and I have accepted now that it's just not going to happen. It's like I'm on massive amounts of antidepressants all the time. I'm not happy...I'm not sad..I'm not really anything. A lot of things can drive depression...for me I find that it's the grieving for the loss of emotions/feelings. My doctor actually told me he stopped prescribing paxil as a lot of his patients were reporting the same effects They always ask the same questions, work, stress, relationship, etc, etc, but there isn't a single external thing that's bothering me. What I do know is that there were some very significant changes immediately when I took the Paxil, and they never came back. I have tried every supplement, drug, therapy etc and nothing works.

[100footpole]

Doogie,

You're right that part of the interview is reading the other person. A skill that I know that I'm lacking in. Currently, I am so ate up trying to "act natural" that I come off artificial ... and the worst part is when I think I'm being "artificial" I try to amp up my "natural" and I come off even more artificial ... just like every sidekick in slapstick comedy.

I hope it will go away If not I'll do something about it later

I got into the CBT when I found a free book called "The Cognitive Behavioral Workbook for depression" by Dr. William Knaus and Albert Ellis. The book has lots of directed worksheets in it. I only did three of the chapters, before it felt too mechanical, but it did give me a feeling of control. After those three chapters I decided that I am going to work mostly on not seeing the world in terms of Black and White, Right and Wrong, Optimal and Non-optimal. While working in the book I felt that it was "pushing" me to try to fix parts of my life that are non-optimal, but which I felt are working well enough. As a midwesterner I may be more resistant to change than those folks on the coasts

And speaking of coasts ... Your positive vibes in these forums really have been a help. The trouble with online is that there is not a lot of resonance ... which is good when you're mind feels sensitive to feedback, but can only take you so far in the real world. We both want to succeed, right Doogie? But if only one of us succeeds ... well I want it to be me, brother. I think beating depression requires a certain amount of saintly selfishness. <cue>

So for now I'm telling myself if I am still blowing my interviews after Christmas ... then I'll worry. Right now I'm just practicing with the interviews and trying to make it through the holidays. My goal is to only get called a "scrooge" ... say 12 times in a day

Keep on keepin' on Brother. <Fade>

[Itsonlyme]

I try not to fall into the "grass is greener" train of thought....

But if my chemicals were off, certain drugs might help with that, and so at least I'd have things to try.

As it is though, my chemicals are fine..... It's the whole rest of my life that sucks Okay, obviously not all of it. But enough of it, that I often question exactly WTF I'm doing on this freaking hamster wheel of life ???