Love

[Ieris]

Leris, I must disagree with sexual concepts/opinions, as they surely don't agree with my own. Seems as though you've possessed a bad experience or two....How do I even elaborate on this??"

Because I have had many generous moments, by female experience, I'll have to give the opinion that you, are, in large ways incorrect...

However, and very unfortunately , there are people who take sex and personal closeness for granted; Too many envision sex as only a sweet, but momentary pleasure - a cheap and one-night stand.

That's ok which aspects do you disagree with?

I've never had any bad experiences, with love or sex. Been with some good people, I just prefer to have sex with someone I love rather than just anyone.

I understand that sex can be a need and many will have sex even if they aren't in love. I have nothing against it as they are free to make their own choices, it doesn't bother me.

[CrazyLady17]

Me and sex and love don't mix at all!!!

Sex to me is all about when two people love each other so much and they have sex to form a "love" and to be more physical and to me sex is pretty hot and pretty awesome!
But it's not awesome when you have had a bad experience in the past(like myself).

[Frame]

I was writing, this morning, in response to a PM about writing. Sometimes I'm concerned about the effect I have on readers, some we may never hear from. But even if I seem harsh I think my madness has a method. And in falls in line with why this post is here.

I agree with what you have said about people needing courage for positive change to occur. I often thing, "Well, I'll write this. It will be here. They may not like it or use it now. But They'll know where to find it. Maybe months down to road they'll read it again and something will change in their thinking."

And I also think people, that we never here from, come to the forums. They read the threads. They might see someone posting about the same concerns they have. They might not be able to come up with the words, but they see them written and it resonates. Maybe they see my response and it scares them and they never come back. But in having seen there problem in black and white; and an answer (sometimes any answer will do) it gets them thinking about there challenges in a different way.

But I think there is an important reason for more philosophical posts like this:

Maybe they do come back to read. Maybe they start posting. I'd like this forum to be a place where people come who need solace, who want answers. But I'd also like to build a group of thinkers; people who post often, about not just the daily highs and lows of depression. I'd like to have more discussions about the pressures in the world that underlie all the depression and the craziness.

That's where it starts and even if you don't believe that, it's where the rubber hits the road. What does it mean to be living in this world? I think that thinking about things outside of us, bigger than us also helps cure depression. Feeling like we are part of something more and like maybe we have some answers, gives us strength.

I don't want to push people away. I want to draw them into the discussion.
Thank you for talking;
and for listening.

[Ieris]

I think people come here for different reasons, to read, to comfort, to vent, to have someone to listen and not feel invisible, for advice etc.

I think you give out good advice, we have crazylady17 here who gives out the hugs. Different members add something different to the mix. I wouldn't want to start a thread and have everyone repeating the same thing.

Some people don't write back after their initial post and I know they don't owe us an explanation but sometimes can't help but wonder what happened to them and what they're doing. I commented on a post once about someone wanting to jump off a cliff, I guess I will never know if he did jump or not.

There are some members who are more soft, some more harsh and if you ever offend anyone it means you hit a nerve and that should give them something to think about. Even if you didn't intend to be harsh or offend, you can't control how others interpret things x

[saragupta]

Respect
Love
Sex

Well, i am not a very good writer so can't put philosophical words like all of u have been doing here so beautifully.
Respect and love can be seen in any relationship...between a grandparent & a kid or among colleagues or between an employee and an employer. It can also be seen between a person and his pet.

Respect can be of two types. First, because of genuine consideration for other person.

Second, because of fear. For eg. the way we show our fake respect to our irritating and dogmatic bosses. Some of us do it because we all know that these fake gestures will certainly will be noticed by the boss. Right!

For me, respect should always come from heart. And should not be expressed just to make the other person feel like a king.

For me, Respect means to consider and to value other person's efforts in building up a genuine relationship...be it between colleagues or between husband & wife. I believe that for growth of Love, Respect MUST be there on the first place.

Like i said before, Love can be seen between a grandparent & a kid or among colleagues or between an employee and an employer or between husband and wife. It can also be seen between a person and his pet.

Sex???
Hmm...i would like to define it as an intense way of expressing passionate love for the companion. "Passionate Love" that has reached to this level of intensity because of consistently growing respect and care for each other.
For me, sex is not just the consequence of physical attraction between two persons. In fact i would say that IT SHOULD NOT. Because i strongly believe that the love or/and sex which is based on mutual physical attraction or infatuation (instead of mutual understanding, love & respect) is just to fulfil human being's natural hormonal needs.

I have tried so many times but have always failed to understand the concept of "friendship with benefits". I mean, how can one trade their hearts with fake emotions just to get something done!
One more thing, i think everyone should be mature enough to understand the meaning of being Responsible, before they decide to have sex with the one whom they love.
That's because, true Love and then respectful sex gives rise to a Relationship...and relationships always come with responsibilities.
It should never be just for the sake of having fun or just for the fulfillment of some motive. Its pleasures should be felt from the soul and it should not be just physical pleasurable experiences.

[Frame]

Yes, yes, yes;

Some very important things Sara. I was wondering when someone would bring up the two flavors of respect. Both of them fit the definition of regard, a restrained attentiveness.

Respect can be born of attraction where, I believe, it serves to give space to a relationship. Respect for a partner helps us regard them with some perspective, some distance. Without respect we risk getting so close we see nothing but our own desires.

And respect from fear keeps us focuses on something we would prefer to turn away from. We need to track the movements of that bear (or that boss) or we suffer the consequences. Fearful respect keeps us to getting to far away.

And I think most successful relationships have just the right amounts of both. How many times do we hear in conversations about relationships; "I know they need their space, but I'm so afraid of losing them."? So between the two (love and fear) we find a stable orbit. I think successful marriages are adjusting this orbit over time as people grow and the need for space-versus-support changes. [And without somehow finding some admiration (or fear) for our boss we are destined to either fly off into the cosmos of careers or crash land and burn.]

Oh, and pets, don't get me started. My damn cats are forever intruding on my personal space. Try building respect in a cat. [Weird though; The meaner I am the more they hound me. When I cuddle them and pet them, they like it, they purr, there happy; then they wander off.]

And about:

I have tried so many times but have always failed to understand the concept of "friendship with benefits". I mean, how can one trade their hearts with fake emotions just to get something done!

I totally agree. Using the model I just built, how can there be any respect. It's the respect that binds us into stable orbits.

I see this in movies and TV shows all the time and wonder. Maybe stability isn't so important. Or maybe these sophisticated people enjoy having complicated multiple orbiting relationships. Perhaps they enjoy when eventually inevitably orbiting bodies crash into each other causing volcanoes and earthquakes. Makes for good TV I guess. Maybe some of us in real life, are just imitating fiction and haven't realized yet that it's fantasy.

[CrazyLady17]

To me love is always going to be confusing....
Sex well.... It's very boring; but it's exercise!

[saragupta]

Hi all,
I wanted to share some more thoughts about sex and love. But i dint...that's because that set of thoughts are based on how i have been brought up in my home and what i have been taught by my culture. So i thought that i should not share them here because ( honestly speaking) i am afraid that i ll be judged as a weird person...ha ha ha

Frame,
U have enlightened me by elaborating two types of respect that i had mentioned, in a more positive way. I liked it when u said that both types are essential for the successful relationship. I agree.
Talking about space! I have always felt that there is a very thin line between "too much of space" and "too much of involvement". Everyone should at least try to learn how to stay on that line.
Too much of space given by our partner CAN sometimes make us to feel like as if we are left alone OR as if our partner is starting to take us for granted...when actually there's nothing like that.
Do u agree ?
I think, to maintain balance, the two persons in a relationship should try to maintain a healthy communication between them, so that they could discuss about all these things like respect, care, love, sex and about personal space...because these things are like the cement and bricks of a relationship.

A recent example,
my mom handles business along with my dad. Right now we are going through a tough recession time. My mom and i have always been ALMOST like friends. We share almost everything with each other. I had been noticing that her nature was changing and she was becoming more irritated and grumpy and short tempered where as normally she is always like a cheese. She seemed to me like she is just not herself.
So one day i convinced her to come with me for a walk...it was hard to convince her.
First i kept talking about stupid irrelevant things and then gradually i asked her what had been going on inside her head and heart!
I was sooo overwhelmed to see that she had a lot of thoughts and stuff to share but had no one to share with.
Although i couldn't suggest her any solution to her problems but i managed to show her what positive things she still has. Plus just blurting out things made her feel light hearted. That evening i got my sweet mom back. But after a few days some more losses in business brought her back to that irritated phase. But she knows that i am here.

So, communication plays a vital role for the success of any relationship...be it between a daughter and a mom or between husband and wife.

@Abbz
thank you that u liked my views.

[saragupta]

Oooohh!!!
I almost forgot to mention one most important thing.

HAPPY NEW YEAR To Everyone here..
May god bless everyone with true love and a peaceful and successful life....and everyone should receive Respect & Love & Care from everyone.
Let's promise one thing, that we all will always try our level best to prevent our friends and dear ones from getting indulged in fake relationships or immature relationships. We should always tell our own bitter experiences to our dear and near ones so that they don't repeat the same mistakes that we did....because there was no one to to say "u r wrong here, give it a serious thought to what u r doing"
Trust me, by helping someone this way, we can relieve ourselves from our own pain of past.

[Frame]

So, communication plays a vital role for the success of any relationship...be it between a daughter and a mom or between husband and wife.

So, so right (IMO) Sara. There is no exception; for all partnerships I have ever known, success stands on effective communication.

Of course between the two components of communication [talking and listening] it seems that much more thought goes into listening. Perhaps that's why it's seems to be more difficult, why sometimes we can't get people to stop talking; l think listening takes more work.

Although, don't get me wrong; coming up with things to say [that have more meaning than screeching finger nails on a black board] isn't easy either. Actually thinking about what we are saying takes work and is also an act of respect. Those three rules of the budhist creed are tough. But, they make communication so much more meaningful.

[For those of you unfamiliar here are three tests to pass before you speak:
1. Is it true
2. Is it helpful
3. Is it the right time.

I think the last two are harder than the first. But even the first can be a challenge. Funny though, when you realize to make any sentence true, you just have to add, "I think" or "I feel" or "It might be". Yet, so many statements are comosed as absolute facts, as if the speaker is the expert, when they are really just opinion or feelings.]

I think that the idea of the two components of respect and stable orbits can be extended to communication also. That is, with the right balance of respect for ourselves and the other, we can end up listening and expressing ourselves in equal measure. And balance is of great importance in communication and relationships (stable orbits, hmm: I'm starting to like this metaphor).

But the thing I really wanted to say [besides HAPPY NEW YEAR] is Yes:

Let's promise one thing, that we all will always try our level best to prevent our friends and dear ones from getting indulged in fake relationships or immature relationships. We should always tell our own bitter experiences to our dear and near ones so that they don't repeat the same mistakes that we did....because there was no one to to say "u r wrong here, give it a serious thought to what u r doing"
Trust me, by helping someone this way, we can relieve ourselves from our own pain of past.

let's all try to help each other out. The truth, as I see it, is we have to take risks. We have to start talking. We have to start listening. That's the only way to establish any orbit at all [stability come with struggle]. I think we can all be a positive influence on the orbits of others. And that, I agree, turns out to be a positive influence on ourselves.

[saragupta]

Thank u so much frame, for analysing my posts. and then for agreeing with me.

No no...i am not taking u in a wrong way. I understand what u r trying to explain here.
I don't know how to copy-paste a portion of someone's post. So i will be writing certain portions from ur posts...not in Your exact words.
Frame, u said that listening can be a difficult work to do sometimes. Then u said that same applies for the speaker as well.
U r absolutely right frame. But allow me to add one more thing in ur list of "respect, love, care, sex...." and that is WILLINGNESS!

Both the persons in a relationship should be willing to solve out the misunderstandings and to figure out various ways to balance everything and to sit calmly and discuss there issues so as to convert their rough and cactus garden like relationship into a meadow.

Both should be Willing to protect their relationship from the earthquake of misunderstandings and from the frustrations that have been caused by the outside world like their work place tensions, getting bullied by some one, etc etc.

If the listener is not willing to put in the efforts to save their relationship then it WILL BE really hard for him to listen to the other person...even if the speaker is justifying himself or explaining the whole scenario or apologizing. Doesn't matter.

If the speaker is not willing, then the things can become even more worst. That's because, anger or being under the influence of extremes of emotions, speaker can fail to choose right and self-explanatory words. Instead, he can choose more provocative and hurtful words.
In that case, instead of solving the root cause of a problem in between them, they can end up blaming each other.
We can't deny the fact that a harmonious relationship demands a lot of Patience from both the persons.

I believe, everyone should try to find out their own mistakes first, before raising finger on the partner. One should not think blindly that he or she is absolutely right...and the other person is the only one at fault.

There's a metaphor "try to put urself into my shoes and then see how it feels". Both the partners should at least try to learn the art of putting themselves into each other's shoes....this way they will be able to judge the whole scenario from a very different angle.
Love and married life are not what we see in movies. In reality they come with intense responsibilities.
I mean, Having candle lit dinners, a slow dance with eyes locked with each other's, having kids, very often repeating the sentence "we will be together, no matter what" ARE just the parts of the journey of relationship....in movies and novels, it seems like there are only these things in a relationship.
Even a machine like A Car also demands repair and service sometimes...so how can we get irritated when relationships demand extra potential to bear with its ups and downs.

So the new list is (in this order)
:--
Respect
Care
Personal Space
Love
Sex
Willingness
Patience
....


One more thing!
Frame can u plz explain how do u copy paste small small portions of posts! And that too in different colours. I really liked it. Ha ha ha.

[saragupta]

Hmmm...i am so sorry frame, ur forum is about Respect, Love & Sex.
I dragged it to an entirely different topic. I just re-read my posts and realized the same.
I Will definitely try to stick myself to Respect, love...in my further posts.

Take care!
Sara.

[Frame]

First, from someone else's post, I select whatever text I want to highlight and I paste it into my response; like so:
I dragged it to an entirely different topic.

Second I select that text in my response and change the color:
[color.=orange]I dragged it to an entirely different topic.[/color]

Thrid, I select the text and color coding and use the quote button:
[quote.][color.=orange]I dragged it to an entirely different topic.[/color][/quote]

If I want a persons name I add ="" in the first set of brackets:

and add the name:

I dragged it to an entirely different topic.

Don't, Sara, worry about where your taking a thread. My posts are generally meant to get people thinking about their lives. I'm not too worried about the direction.
I can always redirect or start a new post.

[saragupta]

Hello frame,
how r u!

It's morning here...sipping my coffee, I have been thinking about Respect, Love and sex.
Frame, people often make mistakes of hurrying things up. I mean sometimes our brain (telling us to take some more time to trust the other person. Try to know more about this person...don't be in a hurry) lags behind and heart wins (telling us Hey he or she is the ONE. So go ahead. He or she seems really trustworthy and i have a feeling it will last longer ).
I know that relationships and love do not come with a guarantee card attached to them...but still, Frame, i was wondering that if two persons are in a relationship and if they really love and respect each other. Then how should they decide that "Now we should take this to next level ie to get intimate or sex "?

I know that understanding the concept of being in a relationship is NOT like learning a theorem of mathematics. But still, this question always echoes in my head, whenever i see someone getting along with his/her partner.
Put some light here, Frame.

[4EverMe]

Thank you, Sara,
and to you "crazy," for letting me know I am missed.

I'm more busy in mind and heart. Just depressed
over painful circumstances, and over the fact that some people? No matter how deeply you try? From the recesses of your soul?? Nothing is ever substantial enough...
No amount of words. No sincerely given and incessant reassurance could ever cast a ray. A ray of hope? Yeah.

Sara, I DO want to tell you that your last pm made me weep, because your appreciation for 'me?' You came straight from your heart! THANK YOU.
I didn't feel only momentarily meaningful. TOO much of my life, I've felt this way- as though my words/friendship have been forgotten after a fleeting few moments of joy!

Recently, I was living this dread again; You reminded me that I can be appreciated for over 30 minutes to an hour. (or one day)