What would you do, if you had the power of life or death

[Alaska1958]

I don't know if I'm breaking a taboo with this question, but I'm going to give it a try.

One night you are walking across the golden gate bridge. You come across a man who is preparing to jump to his death. You talk to him and he tells you about his life long unhappiness, his battles with debilitating depression and his desire to end it all. You try to tell him that there is hope for a better future, that he can try new antidepressants and another therapist. He can find new friends and interests. Things that might help him make life worthwhile. Out of his pocket he pulls a small switch. He says "here, take this, if you push the button I will not be able to take my own life in the next year". He tells you that he'd really like to end this existence, but if you really think that I shouldn't, then push the button. You push the button and he climbs down and tells you he will try to make things work.

A year later and again you meet this man on the same bridge. Again he wishes to end his life and again you convince him to try some more. He asks if you still have the switch and you pull it out of your pocket. You push the button and again the man climbs down and promises to keep trying.

Another year goes by, then another and another. Each year you meet him again on the bridge and each year he wants to quit trying and jump.

My question to you is, is there a point at which you would not push the button? If after 20 years or 30 years he still wants to end his life, could you hand him back the switch and tell him that you will not try to force him to live against his will.

[Frame]

I would never push the switch and here is why (Two whys actually):

There have been many novels and movies dealing with what happens when you save someone's life. They all surround responsibility. There are no social workers who talk a person away from the edge and just let them walk away. It's not enough to alter a moment in a persons life, the action must accompany insight (as is born out by your story; the moment he again has free agency, he returns to the task of ending it.).

Most of the stories I've come across that deal with saving peoples lives decree that the savee becomes the responsibility of the savior. In the stories I've heard, the they become the burden of the savior (even for the angel in "It's a Wonderful Life"). And I have enough burdens right now. I couldn't handle saving someone's life only to ruin it by neglect. Remember what we're talking about. It's not about urging someone to make the right choice. Your talking about playing God.

Which brings me to the second why (or maybe not why). If it's wrong to play God by taking a persons life (controlling whether they live or die) it is also wrong to play God by taking a persons death. So now we get into what at least half of the political battles in the USA are being fought over (guns, death penalty, abortion, euthanasia, health care,...you picked a hot one Alaska). And so I expect and argument. But that is still my opinion.

[Frame]

I was just listening to an interview with Elizabeth Smart. For those of you unfamiliar, let's just say she was kidnapped, mistreated, but ultimately freed. She mentioned that the week before she was kidnapped, her grandmother died. Throughout her tribulations, she continued to she her grandmother come to her in visions, comforting her. Elizabeth's conclusion is that her grandmother died when she did because knew she could do more good as a spirit then as a mortal. If so, who gave her grandmother that idea and who am I to argue. I'm not advocating that we choose to die or act on that choice. I am saying death is not easy, and I'm asking; who's choice is it really?

[4EverMe]

In my opinion, Alaska, the depressed man on the bridge has freewill. Once he gives up that little switch, by freewill, he offers permission for you to intervene. Is it a matter of perception that it seems like a cry for help?

On a more humorous note, what would happen if the switch runs out of batteries? Perpetual indecision?

[Alaska1958]

Ok, Frame I don't except your assertion that you would be taking responsibility for themman's life by accepting the switch. We (me anyway) are not Chinese and in the Anglo Saxon tradition we do not take on responsibility for someone we save.

2nd point, I'm not religious and do not believe that our consciousness servives death of the body. If Elizabeth Smart got comfort during an ordeal I can't hope to even imagine, then good. But for me, the idea that her grandmother died so that she could offer comfort to her granddaughter is not plausible.

Hi 4Everme, thanks for replying. Partly this whole question arises from a conundrum that I have trouble with. You know how when you start seeing a new therapist they will ask you to promise not to hurt yourself while you are seeing them? It's a promise I hate to make. I'm not saying I wouldn't ever break it, but I do try to keep my word and I don't like the obligation.

So in this scenario the man on the bridge is me and the person who takes the switch is a therapist. My issue is that shouldn't there be a time, after all these years, that those in the profession say "it's alright Eric, I understand". Ok I know that's never going to happen, but it seems like it should. To me, I believe that at some point you can tell that man standing on the precipice "it's ok to let go, I know you tried to make it work".

[fallen]

i love switches .
as some one with ocd you would be hovering some where between the river and the bridge!
take care

[Frame]

Actually Alaska I think it's less a cultural than a human condition of emotional bonding that we become dependent on our saviours. Case in point is your own example. Your therapist requires (all therapists require) you make that promise [that binding commitment, that powerful switch] and in return they make a commitment to share your emotional burdens. You do become your therapists responsibility. And it's not just a personal but a professional defeat if they fail you somehow.

And I share your love of switches fallen. I come from an IBM town and, growing up, there was always a supply of second hand hardware (little lights, switches, panels and knobs). That coupled with TV shows like Lost In Space; I had to work hard not to destroy more utilitarian devices that actually had a purpose.

[Frame]

On a more sober note Alaska, I think I now feel much sadness in your question. I think the Hypocratic Oath is a switch all health professionals flip when they get certified and it's one they can't switch off. That oath and the view of life as priceless (again which drives so much political intrigue) is never going to let them simply tell you it's OK. Maybe in other countries where the laws are different...

But I sense you feel the cold coming on and the hardships involved. And I hope you will use this forum to it's best effect for you. My apologies in advance if I'm a bother.

I had a bad spell yesterday. It's worst when life is good, I don't know why. I deal with adversity better; it makes me angry, makes me want to fight. It was warm, the light was good, I went to find some good images (By the way Alaska, it must be beautiful up there. Is there any chance you can get a hold of a camera or a set of paints and easel?). As I rode my bike the world caved in. I thought about what a shambles my life is.

The thought that keeps me going isn't Gods grace (I pray to God all the time. Don't know why, perhaps out of respect for my parents.); it isn't the after life of peace and bliss. What keeps me going is the thought that so many have voiced before they die; that it will all be over way too soon.

[Alaska1958]

A camera yes, can we post pictures on the forum? I know for a while that part was closed. Bear in mind that here in the interior of Alaska we mostly have birch and spruce trees. So we don'tgget the beautiful fall colors that places with a wider range of trees get.

The temp here is usually above freezing during the day, but often a little below at night. I am leaving the heat off most of the time and stay under my electric blanket much of the time. When my kids come over I fire up the wood stove.

When I was 30, I was about 350 pounds and ate a lot. My body was a very good furnace and I stayed warm all winter with little trouble. After I got gastric bypass surgery at 41 I no longer burned off all the calories I ate. I eat a lot each day, but it doesn't keep me warm any more. It's great not being diabetic any more, but I miss being warm.

[Alaska1958]

To clarify my last post, the temperature I mentioned are for outside temps. Inside the temp stays above 50.

Frame, about "bad spells", I know what you mean. Though mine don't usually involve me dwelling on how my life has turned into crap. Often I can just be driving somewhere or walking down the Isle of a store and suddenly I feel something coming over my mind. Suddenly I can't make decisions, can't figure out if I am going here or there, can't decide if I really want to buy those items you went to the store for. Often I will just buy what is in my cart and go home.

[no_answer]

Alaska, you hit it right on the nail with the "switch parable". To me, the right to die is the only human right natural to an animal (including a human). Many Bill of Rights and constitutions and elevated speaches made the list of human rights much longer than one item, but that's what the language was invented for wasn't it?
By waving that right the man on the bridge gave to someone the full power of attorney. That attorney got his own ideas about the only natural human right. And some attorneys are more ethical than practical and vice versa. Usually, in real life, we reassign that power of attorney to the established authority (religious institution, psychiatric ward or professional, social councelour etc.), because they are burdened by society to push the botton regardless (with a few exceptions in conditions certified as grave and terminal, and in only few regions of the US and the world).
I personally, would most likely do the same thing. I would hand the switch over to the best shrink I know. However, if you postulate the necessary condition for me to never transfer "the power of attorney", I'd certainly keep pushing the button as long as I have a reasonable expectation that despite the continual suffering he will have at least one happy moment over the year I have control over his death.
I don't like the idea of playing God, but I think sometimes it is precisely what our role is. The trick is to know when.

[Frame]

It's a pitiful comparison for me to make Alaska, you in Alaska and me in Pennsylvania, but I've been doing the same the last few years; leaving the heat off and using an electric blanket. As far as I can tell you need to link your images from an off forum server. That is what I read, although it doesn't quite jive with the no link policy. So I'm not sure. Even as a moderator, feedback is coming pretty slowly to me.

And I agree with the conundrum no_answer; if we weren't human we would just value our lives and the live of our progenie over every one else. But we silly humans with our big brains have to reason it out; use balance, and art, and altruism; in essence, play God to make a better world rather than just live in it. I think it's tricky because we'll never be all completely right or completely wrong.