Ken,
I don't see that you received a sermon, just someone trying to give you support.
I realize you get down, in a dark place as you say, but please remember, we all do that from time to time.
If you don't want us as mates ( = friends ) then you don't have to take what we say to heart. Just others that are offering a hand, a shoulder to lean on, your choice.
No hate is connected with this site, you know that.
Warmsoul
FALLING TO PEICES (Triggering Material)
Moderators: Sunlily92, windsong, BlueGobi, Moderators, Astrid
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Ahorse
X,
How much more can I read about you? Did you not tell us what you needed to say already?
So you've suffered for 40 years. Mine started at age 10 and I'm now 60. It wasn't until about my 40'th year of suffering that I started getting serious about my illness. At that time I had been suicidal for 12 months+, forgotten to eat and was becoming semi vegetative. I wanted out more than anything but I'd done that 20 years before and decided I wanted life.
You say CBT didn't work for you. Me either, for a couple of years after I had the courses. I did it twice. One on one and group.
You make a major mistake in trying to compare depressions as that cannot be done. A person with a mild depression may suffer as much as you say you do. The point is we all feel depression and we all want it to stop.
You call good advice a sermon. Well, frankly, that tells me where your problem may be. You are not prepared to listen as you think "You've done it all". You haven't. None of us has.
You say you've seen A psychologist. One? I've seen at least 20 over the years. I kept trying and trying to find anyone who could help. I have seen at least a dozen shrinks and an endless number of GP's, who have no idea of the depths we have plumbed. I found a good shrink and I'm still with him today. He helped pull me back from where I was as above.
I moved cities to try and find a good support medical team. And it worked. Being in the one environment was killing me frankly.
Doesn't the obvious jump out at you? Seeing ONE psych and ONE shrink. They have not helped you. Their failure. Change your medical support until you find people who do help.
Would you keep taking your car to the same mechanic if they never fixed a thing but charged you hundreds each time?
I have not said I'm feeling "good". I'm stable and have been for some years after all that time. To me that is enough as my mind is peaceful, I feel no fear and anxiety is at normal levels. Still though just one incident away from being back where I was. How dare you be blase about my condition when you know nothing of my struggle.
I wrote a warning about CBT but you've already done it and failed, right? Did you read what I wrote? It won't work if you are very or deeply depressed. You need to lift your mood enough to be able to think rationally and see where the problems are. Meds, therapy, anything to raise the mood enough. DO it again when you are ready.
Yes you have battled away but staying with the same medical people where failure has persisted to me is not trying. I'm not saying your shrink is no good. Just that for you it's not working with that person in charge is it? So either stop seeing him or change shrinks. Continuing there is a waste of time. I mean, 20 years with one shrink and no change? Please, see someone else, starting over may be exactly what you need.
I'm sure by now your consultations with this one are pre written. You do the same stuff over and over with the same result.
Seeing my shrink initially was a real terror as I did not think help was going to come to me. I was truly scared to see him as he was new. Well, today we laugh and joke every session while we go through where I' m at, how the meds are going, anything new, any traumas etc. I enjoy those sessions a lot now. Used to dread them all before this guy though. He never gives up. Even when I wanted to he didn't.
You mention hypno. Is that hypnotherapy? If so it too is a waste of time for deep depressions. But you know that now don't you? I considered it too but I asked my current shrink and his advice was good. As it was on CBT. Those are his words about CBT essentially.
You entire post sounds much like you expect someone to fix it for you. That never happens. You have to take control and work hard at it. You think you have but that's not reality is it. You attended courses, sure, you saw the shrink, sure.
But how open and honest have you been? Do you have any insight at all into yourself and what contributes to your illness?
Have you had a full physical to at least eliminate any possible physical causes?
How about instead of attacking me for trying to help you actually read what I have written and think it through. Challenge yourself to answer these things honestly. You don't need to do it here as that would embarass you after what you have said so far. But do it yourself for yourself.
I really don't care what you think of me, I know myself and am more than satisfied with where I'm at.
I will look after myself. You do the same for yourself and know there are solutions. You haven't found anything yet. Choice? Give up or keep looking.
One more question. Why would you post here asking for help if you're just going to reject what you are given as an attempt to share experiences? If that's your attitude, then don't post.
I thank you for your distasteful response earlier as that has allowed me to be somewhat more forceful about telling you what you need to hear. Still everything I have written has one aim. To motivate you, to help you, to give you incentive, anything to help you stop suffering. I am not attacking you in the slightest, just being straight with you instead of pussy footing around as one must normally do as we are all so damned sensitive aren't we. The world is against us, I know. It always has been so get used to it has been part of my stabilising.
How much more can I read about you? Did you not tell us what you needed to say already?
So you've suffered for 40 years. Mine started at age 10 and I'm now 60. It wasn't until about my 40'th year of suffering that I started getting serious about my illness. At that time I had been suicidal for 12 months+, forgotten to eat and was becoming semi vegetative. I wanted out more than anything but I'd done that 20 years before and decided I wanted life.
You say CBT didn't work for you. Me either, for a couple of years after I had the courses. I did it twice. One on one and group.
You make a major mistake in trying to compare depressions as that cannot be done. A person with a mild depression may suffer as much as you say you do. The point is we all feel depression and we all want it to stop.
You call good advice a sermon. Well, frankly, that tells me where your problem may be. You are not prepared to listen as you think "You've done it all". You haven't. None of us has.
You say you've seen A psychologist. One? I've seen at least 20 over the years. I kept trying and trying to find anyone who could help. I have seen at least a dozen shrinks and an endless number of GP's, who have no idea of the depths we have plumbed. I found a good shrink and I'm still with him today. He helped pull me back from where I was as above.
I moved cities to try and find a good support medical team. And it worked. Being in the one environment was killing me frankly.
Doesn't the obvious jump out at you? Seeing ONE psych and ONE shrink. They have not helped you. Their failure. Change your medical support until you find people who do help.
Would you keep taking your car to the same mechanic if they never fixed a thing but charged you hundreds each time?
I have not said I'm feeling "good". I'm stable and have been for some years after all that time. To me that is enough as my mind is peaceful, I feel no fear and anxiety is at normal levels. Still though just one incident away from being back where I was. How dare you be blase about my condition when you know nothing of my struggle.
I wrote a warning about CBT but you've already done it and failed, right? Did you read what I wrote? It won't work if you are very or deeply depressed. You need to lift your mood enough to be able to think rationally and see where the problems are. Meds, therapy, anything to raise the mood enough. DO it again when you are ready.
Yes you have battled away but staying with the same medical people where failure has persisted to me is not trying. I'm not saying your shrink is no good. Just that for you it's not working with that person in charge is it? So either stop seeing him or change shrinks. Continuing there is a waste of time. I mean, 20 years with one shrink and no change? Please, see someone else, starting over may be exactly what you need.
I'm sure by now your consultations with this one are pre written. You do the same stuff over and over with the same result.
Seeing my shrink initially was a real terror as I did not think help was going to come to me. I was truly scared to see him as he was new. Well, today we laugh and joke every session while we go through where I' m at, how the meds are going, anything new, any traumas etc. I enjoy those sessions a lot now. Used to dread them all before this guy though. He never gives up. Even when I wanted to he didn't.
You mention hypno. Is that hypnotherapy? If so it too is a waste of time for deep depressions. But you know that now don't you? I considered it too but I asked my current shrink and his advice was good. As it was on CBT. Those are his words about CBT essentially.
You entire post sounds much like you expect someone to fix it for you. That never happens. You have to take control and work hard at it. You think you have but that's not reality is it. You attended courses, sure, you saw the shrink, sure.
But how open and honest have you been? Do you have any insight at all into yourself and what contributes to your illness?
Have you had a full physical to at least eliminate any possible physical causes?
How about instead of attacking me for trying to help you actually read what I have written and think it through. Challenge yourself to answer these things honestly. You don't need to do it here as that would embarass you after what you have said so far. But do it yourself for yourself.
I really don't care what you think of me, I know myself and am more than satisfied with where I'm at.
I will look after myself. You do the same for yourself and know there are solutions. You haven't found anything yet. Choice? Give up or keep looking.
One more question. Why would you post here asking for help if you're just going to reject what you are given as an attempt to share experiences? If that's your attitude, then don't post.
I thank you for your distasteful response earlier as that has allowed me to be somewhat more forceful about telling you what you need to hear. Still everything I have written has one aim. To motivate you, to help you, to give you incentive, anything to help you stop suffering. I am not attacking you in the slightest, just being straight with you instead of pussy footing around as one must normally do as we are all so damned sensitive aren't we. The world is against us, I know. It always has been so get used to it has been part of my stabilising.
No apologise,s
Ive read your reply Ahorse ,and these are all your opinions ,and to be honest i dont feel embarrased about anything ive said .
in your first reply here you constantly talked as if i hadnt done anything ,and the fact that you kept calling me mate ,im sorry i didnt like it .my choise, If this is how you talk to people then fair enough ,so after my blase reply ,you thought you should be forceful with me ,sorry dont like that either ,your right im my own worsed enemy ,that i will agree but thats my choice to ,so what im saying without being shirty is i just post here now it helps me to write it somewere ,you have the option to reply and i have the option not to read .It was not to polite to post your medical history on this thread started by me ,nowere did i question anything about your illness .And yes ive read your posts ,all of them .
Warmsoul you thought i was unfair in the way i replyed ,well i reacted that way because it seemed as if i was being told i hadnt done enough to help myself ,i have indeed seen many shrinks also that was just my typing capabilitys i omitted to put phychiartrists ,im just xn728 now and i just type here because its easier than writing in a diary .
Im not apologising because ive done nothing wrong ,if the forum rules dont allow me to continue being here then you will have to bar me
other than that you wont have cause to talk to me again . xn728
in your first reply here you constantly talked as if i hadnt done anything ,and the fact that you kept calling me mate ,im sorry i didnt like it .my choise, If this is how you talk to people then fair enough ,so after my blase reply ,you thought you should be forceful with me ,sorry dont like that either ,your right im my own worsed enemy ,that i will agree but thats my choice to ,so what im saying without being shirty is i just post here now it helps me to write it somewere ,you have the option to reply and i have the option not to read .It was not to polite to post your medical history on this thread started by me ,nowere did i question anything about your illness .And yes ive read your posts ,all of them .
Warmsoul you thought i was unfair in the way i replyed ,well i reacted that way because it seemed as if i was being told i hadnt done enough to help myself ,i have indeed seen many shrinks also that was just my typing capabilitys i omitted to put phychiartrists ,im just xn728 now and i just type here because its easier than writing in a diary .
Im not apologising because ive done nothing wrong ,if the forum rules dont allow me to continue being here then you will have to bar me
other than that you wont have cause to talk to me again . xn728
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Ahorse
K,
Not in the slightest surprised by your rejection of any advice.
Yes, you know it all. That's why you don't change, mate.
As to the use of the word mate, I am free to use whatever term I feel and I use it frequently. It is part of the Australian idiom and it does not infer friendship as you assume.
It can but I had no such intent with you. Said through gritted teeth it means tolerant contempt.
Said in anger it can meanh total hatred.
Said casually it means the same as pal, chief, buddy, sport and so on. Nothing that is.
You choose to take issue with a word? Who's surprised. You seem to have no concept that there is a world outside you.
Actually, there is but you stay where you are and keep defending your little world of pain mate.
The rest of us choose to look out and see reality and try to deal with it.
This is an open forum and what I write is up to me. But you insist everything in every post on this thread be about YOU. You can't even see why I wrote what I did, you see it as impolite.
I'm not surprised as you are so secure and doing so well your way, aren't you. Well, enjoy. Pretending you won't read is so childish I can't believe it but you won't be able to resist wil you? It's just another nasty thing to say.
Not in the slightest surprised by your rejection of any advice.
Yes, you know it all. That's why you don't change, mate.
As to the use of the word mate, I am free to use whatever term I feel and I use it frequently. It is part of the Australian idiom and it does not infer friendship as you assume.
It can but I had no such intent with you. Said through gritted teeth it means tolerant contempt.
Said in anger it can meanh total hatred.
Said casually it means the same as pal, chief, buddy, sport and so on. Nothing that is.
You choose to take issue with a word? Who's surprised. You seem to have no concept that there is a world outside you.
Actually, there is but you stay where you are and keep defending your little world of pain mate.
The rest of us choose to look out and see reality and try to deal with it.
This is an open forum and what I write is up to me. But you insist everything in every post on this thread be about YOU. You can't even see why I wrote what I did, you see it as impolite.
I'm not surprised as you are so secure and doing so well your way, aren't you. Well, enjoy. Pretending you won't read is so childish I can't believe it but you won't be able to resist wil you? It's just another nasty thing to say.
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Ahorse
Ex Ken,
I forgot to say something above. That it is good you read all my posts as something may eventually penetrate that defence you have.
I don't actually write just for you or anyone I respond to Ex. I do address what you say and try to give some support, benefit of bad experiences and results from many docs and research but I also write for the many people who read on these sites and seem to never join and write themselves. For every one of us who writes there are probably 10 who just read, waiting to be ready to have their say or ask their questions.
This is why I always try to answer if someone responds, for those people mostly so they can follow the story as far as it goes.
But Ex Ken? He writes only for himself, about himself and is upset that someone has the nerve to speak of themselves. How dare I?
You say it is your choice to be your own worst enemy. Sorry, you are way wrong on that too. It's your illness that causes that. Do you not even get that yet? After all these years you still think you are making rational, well thought through decisions? You really need to rethink that attitude or just stop complaining about what you "choose" to inflict on yourself.
I note you made no attempt whatsover to comment on any of the things I wrote. Which tells me I was spot on and you just aren't able to accept good advice as it's not your "choice".
Sadly I believe you will persist with your attitude, continue going to the same people, continue sitting there waiting for someone else to tell you the answer and cure you and continue to suffer as that ain't gonna happen.
It has to come from within you. Is there anything but misery, hate and resentment left in you? I say there is. You "choose" to believe what you want.
I forgot to say something above. That it is good you read all my posts as something may eventually penetrate that defence you have.
I don't actually write just for you or anyone I respond to Ex. I do address what you say and try to give some support, benefit of bad experiences and results from many docs and research but I also write for the many people who read on these sites and seem to never join and write themselves. For every one of us who writes there are probably 10 who just read, waiting to be ready to have their say or ask their questions.
This is why I always try to answer if someone responds, for those people mostly so they can follow the story as far as it goes.
But Ex Ken? He writes only for himself, about himself and is upset that someone has the nerve to speak of themselves. How dare I?
You say it is your choice to be your own worst enemy. Sorry, you are way wrong on that too. It's your illness that causes that. Do you not even get that yet? After all these years you still think you are making rational, well thought through decisions? You really need to rethink that attitude or just stop complaining about what you "choose" to inflict on yourself.
I note you made no attempt whatsover to comment on any of the things I wrote. Which tells me I was spot on and you just aren't able to accept good advice as it's not your "choice".
Sadly I believe you will persist with your attitude, continue going to the same people, continue sitting there waiting for someone else to tell you the answer and cure you and continue to suffer as that ain't gonna happen.
It has to come from within you. Is there anything but misery, hate and resentment left in you? I say there is. You "choose" to believe what you want.
Clear the air
Youve made your thoughts clear Ahorse ,and im sure many members here will have read them ,im sure some of them will expect me to reply with a barrage of nasty comments ,but that not going to happen ,You know when i came here in 2009 the biggest persentage of my 2145 posts
were messages of kindness and support to fellow members desperate to know they werent alone .I have many freinds here ,and they know i can at times be a little rebelious ,its the way i am .Its not something i do on purpose and it has got me in trouble at times .
So no nasty response here ,I hope you feel better for getting those things about me off your chest , im not going to comment any further about it and im not going to fall out with you over it either, best wishes xn728 Ken
were messages of kindness and support to fellow members desperate to know they werent alone .I have many freinds here ,and they know i can at times be a little rebelious ,its the way i am .Its not something i do on purpose and it has got me in trouble at times .
So no nasty response here ,I hope you feel better for getting those things about me off your chest , im not going to comment any further about it and im not going to fall out with you over it either, best wishes xn728 Ken
things have improved
Hello everyone ,how are you all ,as good as you can be i hope ,i dont know if anyone has been following my progress around the forum ,but ive been having hypnotherapy and it does seem to be making me a whole lot better ,Well no ,its teaching me how to cope better really ,things have got much better for myself and Fran ,she can see the change in me and it gives her new hope .and myself we,ll im learning how to laugh again and not be afraid of life itself ,its still hard at times and i have to work at it ,it doesnt come for free ,ill keep it short im very tired but thanks for reading and for all your support ,Warm wishes Ken and Fran
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Warmsoul/Jeanie13
- Posts: 29195
- Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:46 pm
- Contact:
hello Warmie
Thanks for the wishes Warmie ,not much to say here really ,ive been a bit up and down ,work is very hard for me ,more heavy lifting than i thought ,and its playing havoc with my arthritis ,feeling quite down about it really ,i go to a new litium clinic tommorrow ,dont know what to expect but it will be of benifit hopefully ,and and ive been given a support nurse or something like that ,i see him for the first time in mid november ,
i hope your doing ok ,i think perhaps your absence may mean your having some tests .
Fran is ok she is having a tired period ,and her arms and legs ache a lot ,she has optic nuritis .these are all symptoms of m.s they do flare up every so often ,ok ill finish here ,i do wish everyone well ,
Goodnight everyone warm wishes Ken and Fran
i hope your doing ok ,i think perhaps your absence may mean your having some tests .
Fran is ok she is having a tired period ,and her arms and legs ache a lot ,she has optic nuritis .these are all symptoms of m.s they do flare up every so often ,ok ill finish here ,i do wish everyone well ,
Goodnight everyone warm wishes Ken and Fran
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Warmsoul/Jeanie13
- Posts: 29195
- Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:46 pm
- Contact:
Enjoy
You enjoy your you, time Warmie ,im learning to do more of that to and Fran helps me with that ,we have both been ok getting about ,nothing to exiting ,you know when we go out Fran always says what a lovely time shes had ,and you know ,thats all i need to hear to keep me going,
Best wishes to you and all my freinds , Ken and Fran Goodnight
Best wishes to you and all my freinds , Ken and Fran Goodnight
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Warmsoul/Jeanie13
- Posts: 29195
- Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:46 pm
- Contact:
falling into place
I hope they fall into the right place for you Warmie.
youve always been kind to me and Fran especially , Here i feel something bad coming ,somewere on my journey to get better i have lost something and i feel out in the open and vunerable, just feeling strange ,not sure
Best wishes Ken and Fran
youve always been kind to me and Fran especially , Here i feel something bad coming ,somewere on my journey to get better i have lost something and i feel out in the open and vunerable, just feeling strange ,not sure
Best wishes Ken and Fran
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Warmsoul/Jeanie13
- Posts: 29195
- Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:46 pm
- Contact:
(((((((((((((( Ken and Fran )))))))))))))))
Hope things are better with both of you. Time of the year when things tend to go down hill, hard to handle at times. But you / we can't let it get us, we must fight the fight. Don't give up!
Looks like I will be returning to work. Full time, no less. Amazing. Time to think things out seems to help.
Stay strong, be there for each other and do take care.
Warmie
Hope things are better with both of you. Time of the year when things tend to go down hill, hard to handle at times. But you / we can't let it get us, we must fight the fight. Don't give up!
Looks like I will be returning to work. Full time, no less. Amazing. Time to think things out seems to help.
Stay strong, be there for each other and do take care.
Warmie
Hello Warmie hope your feeling ok today ,the weather here has been extremly hot ,not to my liking at all but of course Frans a sun baby so shes happy ,im not so sure about things going down hill .Fran and i both enjoy the winter ,and i find comfort in the dark nights .
But as you say we wont give up will we ,you will no doubt have things in your life that keep you going ,and you know well my love for Fran ,and the girls drives me on .
I hope its good for you returning to work ,is it something you want or is it something that has become nessersary ,and what is it you would be doing ,whatever reason im sure you will enjoy it ,another step forward for
you ,On the flip side of the coin ive had a very hard day today ,ive had to carry 20 heavy doors ,and 19 worktops ,and im having to try very hard to stick at it ,i really souldent be exerting myself in this way ,
anyway i,ll shut up before i put you off , Thanks for your replys, Fran is good shes been feeling a little sick of late but i,ll keep and eye on her .
Goodnight Warmie and all my freinds here Warm wishes Ken and Fran ,,,,,
But as you say we wont give up will we ,you will no doubt have things in your life that keep you going ,and you know well my love for Fran ,and the girls drives me on .
I hope its good for you returning to work ,is it something you want or is it something that has become nessersary ,and what is it you would be doing ,whatever reason im sure you will enjoy it ,another step forward for
you ,On the flip side of the coin ive had a very hard day today ,ive had to carry 20 heavy doors ,and 19 worktops ,and im having to try very hard to stick at it ,i really souldent be exerting myself in this way ,
anyway i,ll shut up before i put you off , Thanks for your replys, Fran is good shes been feeling a little sick of late but i,ll keep and eye on her .
Goodnight Warmie and all my freinds here Warm wishes Ken and Fran ,,,,,
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