Wanting to Recover - looking for support

[ReachingOut]

Hey everyone,

I find you all as I reach a landmark moment in my life journey and as my circumstances appear to me to have amounted to the 'perfect storm' from which I'm having difficulty escaping. Despite several years of searching and trying to work things out I've not been able to change things myself to the point of making any significant progress, and I need support to be able to move on. I'm hoping to find such support here - from people who've been there and can relate to what I'm about to say and who may have experience to share which may help me move on with my life.

On the surface I imagine I appear very successful to many people but inside I feel desperately sad. What the years of searching and reflection has taught me is that I'm missing some very important things in my life:

I do not have an emotional connection with many people, if any. I have no real friends. I can relate to the definitions of narcissism. My marriage feels 'functional' at best and I feel alone in the world. I don't feel I belong to anything or anywhere. I am an introvert and find talking to people, especially new people, very difficult. For those who know what they mean I am a classic Myers-Briggs INTJ and Enneagram Type 5.

I crave physical contact but feel uncomfortable with it, even hugging my kids. I feel bad about how I look and binge eat for comfort. I self-sabotage efforts to feel better about my body. I lack self-esteem and have a pervasive fear of inadequacy. I feel I have to achieve to a high standard all the time before I can be accepted.

I work a very well paid job which crushes my soul daily and I can't figure out what else I could do to bring in the same money or what to do with my life. I dread waking up in the morning and facing another yet another day at work and all weekend I'm thinking of Monday morning. I think I'm about to be made redundant and have no idea what I'm going to do. Worse still I don't lose my job and have to carry on! I'm about to hit 40 and feel as though I'm under-qualified and overpaid to do anything else and in any case I would have to start too far back to make doing anything different possible. I feel trapped.

My family is not supportive, in fact it is quite often quite a challenge. I lost my dad young to cancer a few years ago, my mother is the epitomy of pessimism and negativity and it pains me to say it is draining to be around her for any length of time. I was brought up in an environment where showing love and affection was laughed at and ridiculed (seriously) and I guess I learned to bottle my emotions at an early age. I have one brother who is on a similar wavelength and (unfortunately) path as me, albeit quite a ways behind where I am right now. I enjoy spending time with him but we live apart, time together is few and far between and we can't find a way out of our respective turmoils, despite several attempts to find a solution together.

I don't take enjoyment from hobbies any more. I've 'done' everything I've tried to the point of boredom and can't contemplate putting myself all-in to any of them over the long term. I envy people who seem to 'find their thing' and do it for years and years. I'm what Barbara Sher calls a "scanner".

Despite all the roles I play, I feel I have no purpose in my life that ignites me
and makes me want to take action. I feel I don't make a difference.

I could go on but hey I've only just met you!

It's not usual behaviour for me to open up and I'm not even sure this is the right place to post such detail but I want things to be different for the second half of my life and I'm hoping by sharing the above it resonates someone to the point where you can offer some support and guidance and perhaps share what has helped you move on from a similar position.

Thanks for taking time to read my post, I hope it all makes sense (!) and I look forward to eagerly reading any replies.

Thank you

[jvincent]

This is a wild guess from some one who is reading everything they can to fix his own messed upness . So don't take this post as anything more than for entertainment purposes.
It sounds like you are still dealing with the bad mental programing of your childhood.
Kind of like you have been programed to think you will never be good enough.
Touching is bad that sort of thing , i had a friend like that. She was raised strict babtist and they never hugged as kids. It took her a while but Once she let go of the guilt she became the warmest hug everyone person I know.
I would think you would be best off doing something that makes you feel good about yourself and hold yourself accountable for it until it is just a part of who you are. Some where along the line you are going to have to like yourself in order to feel better. To feel great you are going to have to love yourself and take care of your mind and body.

Maybe hire a trainer and make everything happen to make yourself show up. Most of all you have to convince yourself that you want to do things for yourself so badly that you are willing to fight and overcome the parts of you that want you to stay in your comfortable rut.

I still keep all my gym clothes in the trunk of my car or I will just say I am too tired to go home and get my stuff then go back out.

More than likely you try so hard because you feel inadequate and do a better job at your work than most could. I am guessing you probably do a lot of other peoples work as well and don't get paid for that. Changing your self representation is hard work, It always seems to faster with professional help. But just becase you have not done it yet. It does not mean you can't do it.

[100footpole]

Beautiful reply.

Remember you don't have to change everything at once. Just one thing at a time.

I love your strategy with your gym clothes. I have three sets of gym clothes. I always try to keep at least two in the trunk, but when I get down to the last set of clothes in the trunk then I Make myself wash them before I allow myself to eat after working out. I also give myself props when I wash two sets or one set before I absolutely have to.

I work out three times a week. I pat myself on the back if I can keep the clothes in the car trunk so I don't need to skip dinner. But when I put the clothes in the wash before I get dinner I also pat myself on the back because I am keeping a promise to myself.

Keeping promises to myself is my number one priority, and after that I try to keep promises I've made to other people. The more those people keep their promises to me (workout partners) the closer those promises get to personal promises.

The more promises I keep the more pressure I do to break a promise for an opportunity to do something "fun". I have found that "fun" seems to descend into narcissism ... where I am making excuses to people who value me, to do things that only feel good in the short term. I have found that by thinking "What do I need to do for you?" more people are finding they "need to do for me", but I never break a promise to someone unless its to keep a bigger promise.

Oh ... and a couple of times I've had to work out in my least stinky clothes because that's how it had to work out. I've told my workout friends about it and they are happier to have me there and slightly aromatic, rather than not there at all. (Febreze ... its a compromise not a solution).

[ReachingOut]

Thank you so much for both taking time to reply to my post. I really appreciate your thoughts and words.

It sounds like you are still dealing with the bad mental programing of your childhood. Kind of like you have been programed to think you will never be good enough.

One of my earliest memories is when at age 4 I was in a school class that was disrupted by the headmistress who took me outside to be sat in front of a man in a black suit who told me a series of words and asked me to spell them back to him. I clearly remember one of the words he asked me to spell was "chariot". Nobody explained what this was about to me, my parents didn't know this was going to happen or had happened (until I told them when I got home) and I still don't know to this day what the outcome was - all I know is that when I had finished, and without anything being said, I was taken back into the class (disrupting it yet again) and I remember seeing my classmates looking at me as if to wonder what had made me so 'different' to have been taken out by the headmistress. My family were told afterwards by the headmistress when they asked her what had happened that she had arranged it as a test to see if I was 'gifted', since she suspected I had a 'higher than normal IQ'. That was the last we heard. Because there was no follow up or feedback, I can only assume I didn't make the mark (and therefore was not 'good enough' after all) and I guess ever since I've felt a real need to have to prove myself in order to be accepted and a deep feeling that I am different to everyone else. That day also kick-started an expectation from my family which has endured to this day that I will be a high achiever in everything I do and whilst I've been able to work myself through various qualifications up to a well-paid job and a high position, it all doesn't feel enough. That 4yr old is still waiting to feel accepted and 'normal'. Despite my achievements, I still don't feel good enough.

I would think you would be best off doing something that makes you feel good about yourself and hold yourself accountable for it until it is just a part of who you are. Some where along the line you are going to have to like yourself in order to feel better. To feel great you are going to have to love yourself and take care of your mind and body.

A few years ago I made a decision to lose weight and get fit. I was 16st at the time. Without knowing what to do or go about it I started running and eating healthily and soon became a keen runner, losing 5st in the process. A couple of years later and I found myself on the start line of a marathon feeling fantastic which I then ran really well and went on to complete in a time I should've been happy with but as I approached the finish line all I felt was disappointment. Somehow it wasn't good enough. Not a high enough an achievement (I told myself straight away "you could've gone faster"). Soon after the bottom fell out of my running. Having run 25+ miles a week for months and months beforehand, I suddenly found had no purpose to my running and I struggled to keep going. The mileage fell, I got injury after injury and I eventually stopped altogether. It was months before I put running shoes on again. I'm currently back up to 4 runs a week and although my mileage is well down (there goes me not feeling 'good enough' again!) at least I'm doing something and that feels OK.

I'm struggling with liking myself. I guess I believe I have to achieve to be accepted and I can never achieve enough. If others can't accept me how can I accept myself? A self-limiting belief, I know, but at least with the awareness I have that it exists I must be on a path to addressing it.

Most of all you have to convince yourself that you want to do things for yourself so badly that you are willing to fight and overcome the parts of you that want you to stay in your comfortable rut.

This is a really powerful sentence. I've read it over and over. I'm not sure yet how to begin to go about doing this but I'm sure the answer lies in being able to do so. It feels as though there's a real solution in there for me to work on and uncover. Any tips on where to start would be great!

More than likely you try so hard because you feel inadequate and do a better job at your work than most could. I am guessing you probably do a lot of other peoples work as well and don't get paid for that.

I feel an overwhelming pressure everyday at work to be on top of my game and to achieve in a role that doesn't suit me or fit with my passion and strengths. I need to be seen as being competent more than anything else for fear of not being considered good enough and losing my job. You'd be right to ask why I stay in such a job. I'd love to give it all up and take a different (lower stress) job but then I wouldn't be able to afford to sustain my family's lifestyle and I feel guilt at the thought of 'failing to provide' for them so I remain trapped in a job which is crushing me and not being able to find an alternative which would allow things at home to remain.


Having read back all this it's clear to me I have a BIG issue with not feeling good enough and this could be at the root of my low self-esteem. Maybe if I can work on that I might learn to accept myself and like myself more...

Thanks again for both replies.

[jvincent]

When I reread what I write I usually answer a lot of my own questions too. I also see how I use my own language to cement the problems into my own head. 100footpole seems willing to remind people of that as well. It also sounds like you will not have to worry about our gym cloths problem.

I think you have the acceptance thing a little backwards. How many people need to accept you to make you good enough to accept yourself? Its kind of never ending that way.

Okay hearing the 4 year old story as some one who has gone from a not good enough problem to now a cant forgive myself problem I would have to say..
Yup. it sounds like someone needs to have a sit down chat with that little 4 year old little girl in the back of your head. they need to tell her that she is so much more than good enough. And the reason she was pulled out of class and tested was because she was so outstanding amongst her age and her piers that someone had to check to see if she was cheating, if she really was that good,, or if she needed to be in some top secret government program learning to pick locks using only her mind.
Either way. She was outstanding.

Tips on where to start? You seem to have all the things you need you just don't do them because you enjoy them. you seem to do them and feel you are not good enough at it, then obsess over how much better you could be. I imagine then things are no longer fun and you burnout on them quickly.
I would say do some things just because you like them and give yourself permission to be bad at it and still enjoy it. When I was younger we used to have left handed bowling night. unless you are left handed then you had to use your right. everyone sucked and it was a blast. we used the bumpers so no gutter balls and the person with the lowest score won. Do not underestimate the fun in being bad at something..
maybe to start ,, give yourself a time, run a different path every now and then. turn around and run back when time is up. don't time your way back home. have no clue how far or how fast you ran. Run just because you it makes you feel good. see if you notice any amazing things you would normally miss by being way to good at running. maybe once a week just be good enough at enjoying the journey, rather than how fast it ends.

[100footpole]

jvincent replied with:

Yup. it sounds like someone needs to have a sit down chat with that little 4 year old little girl in the back of your head. they need to tell her that she is so much more than good enough.

That paragraph was the one that gripped me too. My first nervous breakdown was in my sophomore year at college. I got a C in organic chemistry and my dreams for being a doctor were shattered . I don't know why I wanted to be a doctor ... people had been telling me that for years. It was easier to agree to try to be a doctor then figure out what else I could do with my life. I got the C in organic chemistry because I wasn't studying correctly ... I had always studied alone, and when I finally found something I couldn't parse I kept obsessing on the text instead of going to talk to the professor. The professor had said that organic chemistry was the first hurdle to keep people out of med school ... and I hadn't realized that the hurdle was learning new jargon. I have very little facility with language, and had dropped out of German in college because I couldn't keep up with the polyglots. I could understand them, but nothing would come out of my mouth. I could read German, but I couldn't speak it. I never dreamed in the language it was always a clunking, chunking process. In the same way I could never become fluent in German without practicing with other people, I could not become fluent in the naming of organic compounds without talking with others.

I had more nervous breakdowns before entering the world as a computer programmer. I recently saw "The Imitation Game" and am thankful that I hadn't seen it when I was young. Turing in the movie was everything I aspired to as a programmer. Businesses have paid me bonuses to go obsessive on two of their projects, so I have sufficient money available to me when the tax laws say I am old enough to claim it. Before that I have to work, minimally, to support myself or pay a government penalty for early withdrawal. I really appreciated the dramatization of Turing's meeting with his suspicious nemesis in the Imitation Game. However I doubt that the bureaucracy ever suffered from any kind of poetic regret.

Your statement:

I'd love to give it all up and take a different (lower stress) job but then I wouldn't be able to afford to sustain my family's lifestyle and I feel guilt at the thought of 'failing to provide' for them so I remain trapped in a job which is crushing me and not being able to find an alternative which would allow things at home to remain.

rings a huge bell with me. I tried to fit my son into the same mold I was in, with my coping tricks for dealing with stress. He decided to go to art school instead ... which my wife is subsidizing. That was three years ago, and this may he graduates at the age of 25. At 25 I had just got another bachelors degree ... finally in computer science instead of liberal arts. For the next thirty years I coded ... only enjoying it for the two times I was important and obsessing. The systems that I wrote obsessing are gone now ... they lasted 15 years and 6 years respectively. After my son gets his degree my wife thinks she wants to retire as quickly as possible. I believe my son learned that money is a tap root of evil before my wife and I. The three of us agree that he needs to use his art degree to support himself now, god bless him .

I agree with jvincent that enjoyment is the key to successful living. How to enjoy yourself is a journey and a discovery. There is no set answer. When it happens you will look back and wonder how you worried about all that "little stuff" ... but its not little RIGHT now is it? Enjoyment comes from perspective. Perspective is something you need to build for yourself. Perspective comes from failure, how can you appreciate what is right without having perceived what is wrong. The luckier you are the more you will perceive other people's mistakes, rather than your own. But be aware that not making your own mistakes is simply hubris, because hubris is what you felt at the end of the marathon when you crossed with a good time, yet didn't feel the joy you expected. Which would you rather cross the finish line with: A grimace of pain or a smile. I believe that self-inflicted suffering is simply trying to do the right thing in the wrong way. And that is simply poor conditioning, learning from bad examples . Look for people who are smiling, and try to do what they do. Left handed bowling sounds like a great place to start.

Good luck to you. Try something that you think will make you a little happy and let us know how it goes.

[ReachingOut]

Once again, thank you both for taking time to reply. I really appreciate all your thoughts.

I imagine then things are no longer fun and you burnout on them quickly.

I can't remember the last time I had 'fun'. I'm not sure if I really know what that means any more. I don't have many friends so don't do anything much socially of an evening or weekend and I stopped drinking when I started running so can't even go for a drink with anyone. All the hobbies I once enjoyed seem empty and pointless. A pretty unexciting existence made worse by my work situation. I don't have much to look forward to or excited about.

maybe once a week just be good enough at enjoying the journey, rather than how fast it ends.

How to enjoy yourself is a journey and a discovery. There is no set answer.

A fear of idequacy and incompetence is the best way I know to take focus away from the here and now. I really need to learn another alternative but don't yet know how.

how can you appreciate what is right without having perceived what is wrong.

I like this. Thank you. There are lots of things I can point to right now that aren't right and even if I don't yet know what is, I can at least use the difficult things as signs of where I need to be away from.

I know that the root of significant change is to know what you want. Where I am right now I can't work out what that is no matter how many hours I spend trying to work it out. In the meantime I'm in the furnace and each day sits heavy on me, draining me dry.

[100footpole]

One of the things I like to do is look for Koans in everyday humor and bad jokes ... Charles Schultz was a Zen master. We fail to recognize our complex tropes in his simple comics.

Given that ... one of my favorite jokes is: I went to the Dr. and told him "Doc, every time I do this it hurts." The Dr. said "Don't do that, $50 please".

You wrote:

A fear of inadequacy and incompetence is the best way I know to take focus away from the here and now. I really need to learn another alternative but don't yet know how.

I know three things:

1) You are adequate - you write beautifully.
2) You are competent - I seem to know you without knowing the details.
3) I will never be good enough - The time since my last mistake depends on the granularity of my observation.

[ReachingOut]

Thank you yet again for taking time to reply. I really appreciate your time.

I know three things:

1) You are adequate - you write beautifully.
2) You are competent - I seem to know you without knowing the details.
3) I will never be good enough - The time since my last mistake depends on the granularity of my observation.

I've reflected on these comments a lot and they have helped me acknowledge several things:

I clearly have a hard time accepting compliments! Whilst I did feel a genuine warmth after reading your comment about my writing, my negative self-talk was on it like a flash ("Writing? Nah. They can't be right. In any case, what use is THAT?") How can I ever accept anyone thinking I'm good enough if I can't think that of myself? I immediately then feel I need to write something so profound, so meaningful or powerful it'll prove my competence beyond all doubt and as a result people might think I'm highly competent and the only logical conclusion will be they will like me forever. This thinking only serves to create a void which can never be closed and a tension residing inside me which can never be released, since what I seek is impossible. My standards are so high that I even I regularly fail to meet them. I'm back to that 4yr old screaming "Hey, don't walk away. I am special and gifted - please love me."

I actually like writing. Dare I say...I even enjoy it from time to time. Hmmm... I now remember all the positive comments I received whilst compiling a blog during my marathon training. I remember taking up and really enjoying calligraphy as a child. I still have a love of fonts and typefaces. I have an obsession for stationery, especially pens. Now there's a thing.

Whilst I know to make mistakes is to be human, I envy your ability to accept so freely that you will never be good enough. If I try that phrase on myself it feels like a defeat; an acknowledgement that I will never be accepted and liked. I'd really like to learn this belief and perspective as I'm sure it is key to my recovery.

Everyone's comments have touched me and are helping me enormously. I am gaining increasing clarity on the root of my issues. Thank you.

[CrazyKiss]

Hi there, I dont think u are useless or unworthy at all. When u mentioned about ur job and how well u get paid is a bonus because not many people do have a job with a good wage so ur really luckly and that counts to something I'm sure.

It sounds like u dont really know where u belong as apart from work u feel lost and have no motivation to do anything as all there is for u to do is work work work and that seems to be the only thing what's keeping ur emotions and feeelings at bay.

I know u mentioned that u have tried everything u know to get out there and see new things although its easy said then done. If u said u tried looking for another job and it didnt work then maybe doing something as a hobby like that won't be best for u or going on a course and studying a new subject. I see anything related towards a career isn't the way to go. Its really good that u got a job and I know u dont know what could happen in the future but its more living ur life now then thinking about the future cuz u never know.

It's good u have some family and yh u may not be in touch with other family right now but there is time to make up and forget about what's happened. Sometimes u have to do it cuzit will just become more and more stressful. I do think u could try and reach out to ur husband as he knows u best as he's part of ur family two. You two are still together so I wouldn't see why not in reaching out to him. You both could try and sit down with each other and talk things through about everything whats on ur mind. I'm not sure what kind ofrelationship u both have but it's good to talk things through now and again .

There a few options out there which may not be something u already done but have u ever thought about counselling? That is a good way of talking to someone u dont know who won't judge about how ur feeling, what u want now and support for u in general. You could mention this to ur doctor first and get them to refer u to a counseller. Dont know if ur on medication but u would be if u are seeing a doctor. Are u and seeing the doctor also? The medication helping at all? If ur feeling low all the time it could be the medication and that that u need to be put on something else but only u know. It's up to u but I do think it would help. Are u in touch with any other support services like The Crisis Team etc? They are a long term service who can help u further with problems u may have though it's mainly for people who are feeling depressed or have other mental illness. Have u heard of them

Always distract urself with doing chores around the house like cleaning, washing, playing with the kids, cooking, reading or writing etc. Those things can be really good to do when u feel low and with no motivation. I know tried taking up another job before outside of home but u dont necessarily need to when there are jobs to do at home and I know u dont feel comfortable going out

Really good that ur reaching out on here as there are people who can help share there experience so ur not on ur own but would try to get some counselling if u can as that make a difference to how u feel and see doctor before hand two.

I hope that helps and keep reaching out on here x

Take Care

[ReachingOut]

Thanks for your post, CrazyKiss.

When u mentioned about ur job and how well u get paid is a bonus because not many people do have a job with a good wage so ur really luckly and that counts to something I'm sure.

With respect, I don't think of my work situation as anything to do with luck. I am where I am today as a result of years of learning and applying myself and being recognised and offered new opportunities - I am a victim of my own potential That said, it never feels enough, never feels like success and that comes back to me always feeling like I'm not good enough yet and always having to prove my competence. We're being led all the time to believe the economy is down the tubes (by the very people who created the situation and perpetuate it to this day - but that's a different subject for a different forum!) and therefore we're lucky to have anything - as many will know, to try to tell yourself "hey, cheer up you're lucky to have a job" just doesn't cut it. My job feels like handcuffs. Sure, I can pay the bills and I am grateful for that, but it also drains my soul and no pay check can make up for the emptiness, anxiety, stress and tension caused by constantly being a square peg in a round hole and not being able to jack it all in and do something else. Work is currently out of necessity, not a passion or a career. Classic "Rat Race" scenario.

It sounds like u dont really know where u belong as apart from work u feel lost and have no motivation to do anything as all there is for u to do is work work work and that seems to be the only thing what's keeping ur emotions and feeelings at bay.

It's true that as far as I remember (probably since I started school) I don't feel I 'belong' anywhere and I'm certainly different to most people which in itself is not a "bad" thing. I certainly don't want to fit the crowd but at the same time I do get desperately lonely from time to time. I suppose being an outlier on the social curve means there are fewer people like me out there on my wavelength to connect with...

I know u mentioned that u have tried everything u know to get out there and see new things although its easy said then done. If u said u tried looking for another job and it didnt work then maybe doing something as a hobby like that won't be best for u or going on a course and studying a new subject. I see anything related towards a career isn't the way to go. Its really good that u got a job and I know u dont know what could happen in the future but its more living ur life now then thinking about the future cuz u never know.

One of the things that I face at the moment is that emptiness which comes with not taking enjoyment from things that were once so satisfying. Everything seems so...pointless. I know it's the depression which kills my excitement and I know that it's all about doing things purely for the sake of it and not to meet some higher purpose but it all seems like such a waste of time when I could, and should, be finding a way out of my turmoil. I've had many hobbies over the years (I feel like I've done everything that interests me) but each one "dried up" and I was left with the familiar feeling of pointlessness. I even once sat down with a huge list of hobbies to see if revisiting any would start even a tiny flame in my heart but nothing stirred me to action.

I have talked at home about how things are for me and whilst it was a release to express my feelings at first, it in itself changed nothing and provided no answers. Medication made me feel worse at first and then when it was changed has no effect. Doctors want to treat everyone the same way by giving them drugs - that wasn't (and still isn't) the way forward for me. Weeks of counselling helped highlight my loneliness and some of the underlying issues but again it was about raising my awareness, not providing me with answers. I think the best I can hope for with any of these things is that it helps my level of awareness and perspective to such a point where I can find my own way forward - the best answers come from within is, not from external sources. That belief led me to this forum and to people who I know understand what it's like to have depression and who might be able to offer little nuggets of experience that helped take them forward in whatever large or small way in the hope that I can then absorb and internalise them and turn them into something meaningful for me which I can apply to my own situation.

I really appreciate your suggestions - thank you.