Love

[Frame]

Geeze, where to start?
Well, first let me say; this is great. This is just what these threads are supposed to be. All our issues are complicated, and even more complicated by the common issue of depression. And maybe I'm wrong, but I believe that perhaps people here are more vulnerable to depression because we 'feel' more deeply than most.

Things don't get sorted out unless they are first written down. Don't any body feel sorry for writing the wrong thing on a post. But let me begin with a stanza worth repeating:

It is good to be loved,
But better it is to love...
Precisely why this pain
Stabs worse!

So true (and so misunderstood). Jack Cornfield quoted someone else [can't remember who] that: '...a furnace doesn't need the warmth' and in that respect we are the furnace.

We don't need love as much as we need to love. A big part of the problem comes from how people define love. And that ties in to Sara's question about love, and respect, and physical intimacy. So many people admit that love is a verb, but then they treat it like a noun; something to acquire, to possess, to give away. This gets back, again to love as an act of giving or a fact of currency, because currency is a thing, a noun (even as intangible as is often is) and an action can only happen. Then it's gone. It is either a fantasy for the future or a memory of the past, but only a fact right now.

So I'm going to define love as I see it. Might clear up some things about risk and (inevitable) pain and (optional) suffering. But I have to get to work first.
Later.

[CrazyLady17]

I've also wondered if "love" is just all about "sex"...
I have asked friends and they say it is all about sex, but to me I think it's more than just about sex.
Love is showing someone affection and showing someone they matter and they are something special to you.
Love is also about having that trust with that someone and having that "respect" within the relationship.

What do you all think?
Does anyone agree?

[Frame]

So, 'Love', as I see it is a decision. It's a choice and so an action. It's a verb.

Love is a choice we make each moment to commit ourselves to care of another. And while we can only hold one thought in our head at any moment we can only Love one person at a time. Granted we can pack a lot of moments in any given second; but love has a priority system and we can only Love imperfectly.

Of course that also means that, the more time we devote to thinking about, attending to a person, the more perfectly we can Love. If we are always centered on our own desires, attaining what we want, then the only person we can Love is ourselves. If all our waking hours are spent at work, then the only thing we have a chance to Love, is our job.

That doesn't mean we Love what we devote all our time to. We may actually hate it, or them, or ourselves. But we won't have a chance to Love any thing or any one else either.

So when does physical intimacy become... let me see, Oh I got it, "...the next step"? I actually think it it's a matter of what we believe comes after sex. My understanding is [correct me if I'm wrong] everyone likes the physical act of sex but everyone attaches different meaning to it. Everyone has a different expectation of how the world changes after sex.

Biologically, it signals a willingness to start a family; but again we have problems with definitions don't we? So maybe we give sex or have sex because we think it will make someone happy, or bind them to us. Maybe we do it to make ourselves happy, or because it will open doors. The fact remains whenever we do something with expectations of results, we take a risk. And so Love and sex always carries risks and they are risks we carry with our expectations.

But I've typed myself out of time without talking about how to get Love and sex to come together.
Next time.

Comments welcome.








and pie.

[CrazyLady17]

I have to say frame.....
I do agree with your comments here to be fair.

Yes love and sex are risks I suppose; especially unprotected sex and then could catch a STI or something.. Or become pregnant.
Love; well people aren't always loyal, and then the trust breaks and the love breaks.

[CrazyLady17]

Love can mean different things;
Love in a relationship
Love in a friendship
Love in a family ship
Love in something ie a celebrity or tv show...

There are different meanings for "love" and we all have our own meanings for;
Love
Respect
Sex

I think these three words are very powerful and are use in a such powerful way when we express them..

[Frame]

So; free gift, natural progression, expectations, love, sex, commitment, partnerships,...

...the universe (no, wait... that one just slipped in there).

OK sure, we all want security right? And security is something that exists in the future. Security isn't about living, or dying, or eating now. It's about knowing you'll get the chance tomorrow or the next day... When we give something away freely with no expectations of your action causing effects in the future, then there is no risk, no concern about security.

If we take action with the expectation that will cause an effect then there is a risk. We must have faith that the effect will occur. There is some (perhaps) insecurity. So if friendship, and love, and sex is an expected progression toward a stronger more inseparable relationship, then there will be risk; especially when (in my experience) people seem more and more willing to redefine those words to mean whatever they want.

But, I think that one way to reduce the risk is to look at the pattern of someone's life. Earlier, I mentioned the ability to Love another requires that we make that decision over and over again. It only takes a short while with a person to see where their attention and respect are focused. How constant are their commitments to you? People are the total of their actions, what they do, not what they say. They can make promises, but if it's obvious that there concern and respect lay with themselves, they will never have the time to Love someone else.

That may be OK for some people, but lack of love includes lack of one type of respect, includes a sort of orbital instability which will always require extra energy to stabilize. And will always entail greater risks.

So one way to judge whether to take the next step is to ask yourself; are you comfortable with their devotion to you, not just the amount but the consistency. And not what they say they are or will be; because whether you feel you need more than they can give or they give less than you need really doesn't matter.

[CrazyLady17]

Yes totally agree with you Frame.
We all need that secure relationship, but not everyone finds it straight away as it's hard to find... Especially these days.

I would say "love" is hard to find and "love will never be easy and it'll always end up in tears of joys or tears of fear.
Love is a risk we all have to take at some point in life.

[stillwaters]

Hi frame
I thought this was a great thread and it reminded me of this song by Marshmakhan. Maybe some of it applys here. good tune if you google it.

A child asks his mother, "Do you love me?"
And it really means, "Will you protect me?"
His mother answers him, "I love you"
And it really means, "You've been a good boy"
And as the years go by, true love will never die
At seventeen his girl says, "Do you love me?"
And it really means, "Will you respect me?"
The teenage boy answers, "I love you"
And it really means, "Can I make love to you?"
And as the years go by, true love will never die
I will love you forever
I will love you forever

At sixty-five his wife says, "Do you love me?"
And it means, "I like to hear it again"
Her husband says to her, "I love you"
But it really means, "I'll love you till the end"
And as the years go by, true love will never die
Now you're asking me if I love you
And it really means, "Will I marry you?"
And I answer, "Yes, I love you"
But it really means that I won't be untrue
And as the years go by, true love will never die
I will love you forever
I will love you forever

[Frame]

So beautiful and poignant Michael.
Fits perfectly here.

[CrazyLady17]

Beautiful.