Depression Understood Forums

Oh my stars...

So, we made it a few days before I "found" my way back here... This time I'm... ambivalent. "Wait... Isn't this place for depression, anxiety, etc", I hear you think?

Well, yes it is... and I can guarantee that depression is in there. Tucked inside that weird numb when you are proved ENTIRELY right about some people, but you didn't want to be. Thank god I think I reached my maximum pain threshold and went to numb. That and *ahem* self medication may be helping me cope with this.

So what the hell am I talkung about? Well... Found out a couple of "friends" recently shafted me. I suspected that they were up to something, and right when I'm in the depths they make the decision to boot me when I am down. Thanks guys...

Axeholes.

Actually, as stated before, the betrayal couldn't have come at a better time. At a point where I am too numb to care anymore. I know this hurts on some level, but I just don't feel it right now...

Thing is, I NEED to listen to my instincts in regards to people and stop trying to believe the best in them. The "best" in people doesn't seem to exist. For most, it seems to be just show so that they may satisfy their own ends, as opposed to having a connection to the long-dead human traits that were known back in the day as empathy and honesty.

Problem is when my "spidey-sense" goes of in regards to someone who should not be trusted, I tell myself I'm paranoid... But no... Every consarn time, I'm right!

Okay, I'm a bit too spacy to make much more sense with this rant...

I WILL say, I don't advise ditching all trust in all people; just make sure that the ones that you trust have earned it first, k?

K.

Frame wrote:K.

Thanks for yr thoughtful and insightful contribution. I shall take yr words of wisdom and compassion to heart, and shall treasure them for the rest of my days; for they have brought meaning to my life where before there was merely void.

[size=75]PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:35 am Post subject: In between the notes: Just sayin [/size] wrote:...the real meaning of the music is in between the notes.-John Adams (the composer, not the beer maker)

Awesome example AmI;
And the idea of filling the Void. The Zen of it all; you fit right in here.

You wrote:Thing is, I NEED...stop trying to believe the best in them. The "best" in people doesn't seem to exist. For most, it seems to be just show so that they may satisfy their own ends, as opposed to having a connection to the long-dead human traits that were known back in the day as empathy and honesty.

Some day we'll have to have a discussion about my interpretation of altruism and narcissism. But for now suffice it to say (I hope) that the best and the worst of people are just two sides of the same coin. You either believe in them or you don't. I have no sage words about which action to take accept to say that it is your insight into peoples actions (and insight into the nature as people) that makes them human or not, trust worthy or not, good or bad. The best and the worst are views form specific vantages points, certain perspectives.

Sure there are commonly accepted views, but most of the views we encounter every day are either not commonly accepted or lies. So when we encounter the "worst" in people, there is a good chance that we are 1) experiencing honesty (or would you rather see lies?) 2) seeing the actions through our own human eyes. You're the only one who can see through your eyes. Other people may not share your interpretation. If we pull back, if we loose faith in other peoples ability to learn or our own ability to express our own views, then we build a wall which happiness and empathy has trouble hurtling.

Anyway,
I like the way you write.
I hope you keep writing,
Frame

P.S. My apologies; John Adams was the president (two really). His cousin Samuel was the brewer.

When we make a decision to get healthier, the crowd we are with either really wants to be part of that or they have a vested interest in keeping us sick because they are responding from fear that we are changing rather than a compassionate place of understanding and love.

And some people no matter how wonderful they are can't deal with the depths of our despair. Heck even I can't deal with the depths of my despair, that's why it makes me suicidal. Even I don't want to be around me at that point.

So the question really becomes about how to have friendships that really are helpful instead of hurtful. I had my best experiences with people I met who were also working on themselves. They were "admittedly sick" but a lot of other people are sick, they just don't admit it and deal with it.

So I wound up being friends with people in 12 Step groups and church. Even at school where people are looking for knowledge instead of thinking they know it all. Places I STOPPED "shopping" for friends. Bars. Work - if it got complicated that made my life worse. On the street. I used to put my heart out there for anyone - compulsive confession I called it.

AND I have a lot of people I like that I've met outside of Church, school and 12 Step programs, but they aren't my INNER Circle who know the deep down difficult parts of me and still love me. They are people I enjoy and have fun with but I also have boundries. Things I consider none of their business and I put less weight to the things they think and say because they don't KNOW me as well as my BFF and my closest friends.

Also, I don't know THEM as deeply so I don't know what their agenda is. My Inner Circle will flat out TELL me what they want or expect from me and I have the right to say "Yes or No" and live with the consequences. But there is a level of HONESTY there that makes it really my choice and that is a freedom of sorts.

So I think of the people in my life as being somewhere in relation to me whether they are inner circle or in orbit somewhere in the range of Venus or Mars to me. I have boundries to protect myself, think doors and windows instead of walls, drawbridges and moats.

How MUCH of myself can I trust to this person determines where they get to be in my life. It's my life, so I choose. Took awhile to get to that point and feel like the system works and many mistakes along the way. But it's a valid system to sort things out and not have to throw everyone out who can't live up to the responsibilities of inner circle friendship because that is a HIGH Trust position. People should earn it with their behaviors and attitudes.

Just my thots. Take or leave whatever you like.

G2Bme

I think you make a really good point Glad;

So many people who speak about being hurt also speak of trusting or not trusting. But the truth (my truth anyway) is that you can trust everyone in some small way to act in certain ways (we all gotta breath). And we can almost certainly trust that we will be disappointed by expecting certain thinks from anyone (most people will not keep your secret plan to commit a capital crime).

We learn to trust actions of each and every person by understanding them and their history. People are not interchangeable. You can't even expect the next person to follow social conventions unless you've experienced there actions first hand. There is plenty of evidence in the news and novels that you can't trust anyone. Each confidence is a risk.

So each person comes with a bundle of trust to be discovered. You can trust them to do some things but can't trust them to do others. And these things change with time. There are of course core beliefs, but these are often well protected cloaked. You have to really know someone to trust them. And you have as much risk of hurting, disappointing, letting them down as they do you.

Sometimes people just don't know what to do.

I've always had to have lots of friends because no one person can really handle the entire scope of all my issues. That's what a therapist is for and they aren't my friends, they are professional listeners and thoughtful interpreters.

Sometimes people love deeply, but just fail too.

I live and love and laugh more than most people I know. I'm a lot to handle. My BFF has to take her own time and so do I. I've been mopey lately. She had to do her birthday girls weekend without me inspite of telling me about it weeks in advance.

I'm not taking care of me as well as I need to, so I let her down. I've got a SAAD light in the house, but no where to really set it up because I also have grandkids living with me who could obliterate it in a heartbeat.

Luckily we have been friends over 25 years so she won't dump me for this mistake and I've got my hubby onboard to do something with her tonight. It's just settling on the specifics now.

Anyway, sorry about the thread hijack! You may all return to the scheduled post!!

Frame wrote:Some day we'll have to have a discussion about my interpretation of altruism and narcissism. But for now suffice it to say (I hope) that the best and the worst of people are just two sides of the same coin. You either believe in them or you don't. I have no sage words about which action to take accept to say that it is your insight into peoples actions (and insight into the nature as people) that makes them human or not, trust worthy or not, good or bad. The best and the worst are views form specific vantages points, certain perspectives.

Well that's the thing, really. The recent treatment that I have received from certain figures around me has me completely distrusting my insight right now. I'm not sure I have faith in my own ability to interpret others and their motivations anymore.

When I speak of the "Best" in people, I speak more specifically about my idiotic tendency to trust by default and then learn the hard way later, rather than anything concerning them... Most of the time, things DO wind up okay and I've been proven right in issuing that initial trust. I've found that if you give most people a genuine chance, they won't screw you.

But, realistically, it's a big risk that I've been taking over the years, and I really shouldn't be surprised that it has exploded in my face like this. Law of averages. It was going to happen. I was eventually going to misread a situation and the people involved so drastically that I was going to get hurt and hurt badly.

I probably just need to stop being so naive and idealistic, and... well... act more appropriately for the world I live in, as opposed to trying to be separate from all the negativity, aggression, cynicism and narcissism that seems to be strangling humanity.

Frame wrote:Sure there are commonly accepted views, but most of the views we encounter every day are either not commonly accepted or lies. So when we encounter the "worst" in people, there is a good chance that we are 1) experiencing honesty (or would you rather see lies?) 2) seeing the actions through our own human eyes. You're the only one who can see through your eyes. Other people may not share your interpretation. If we pull back, if we loose faith in other peoples ability to learn or our own ability to express our own views, then we build a wall which happiness and empathy has trouble hurtling.

I WOULD rather see honesty. It was the lies of these other two people that led me to this, and I will admit, they got me. I got fooled. If they'd been honest from the beginning, things would never have come to this.

I feel stupid. I feel hurt... and with all the other things that have/are going wrong in my life recently, it's MIGHTY ferking hard to not shut down and hide back behind the wall. I know it's not healthy, but I feel disoriented, deeply hurt and very alone in the world right now. I feel vulnerable and am have massive doubts about my ability to read a situation or defend myself against the smile+stab opportunism of others.

As for interpretation... No, there's no other way to interpret this. I don't want to go into what it is specifically, but it's pretty black & white, cut & dried... There's no ambiguity in this situation. Just a couple of snakes who slithered into my life, won my trust (again, not that it's as difficult as it probably should be) and took advantage of me; all while portraying themselves as something they were clearly not.

In short, I f***** up and they suck.

Also, thanks for the thoughts, Frame. My snarky response to yr letter wasn't intended to draw a response from you; rather I was drunk, cranky, resentful and miserable... and I'm guessing that I thought what I wrote was kinda funny... Sorry for any bad feelings you may have had relating to it.

It's no problem Bird (Yes I think perhaps you still are). And Yes also, I think you are either rather lucky in your trust paradigm or much stronger than you think. I tend err on the side of trusting in peoples selfishness and fallibility. All in all it's a better bet and a much better out come when they let you down.

You can use us of course, but I guess I'm thinking that your basic world attitude is fine. Just have someone to run scenarios by as they come up to see what others would do in that situation.

There are slimeballs out there, but in general I trust the world and protect myself. Like a Girl Scout always prepared. I'm still idealistic and think the world CAN be a better place and that my loving acceptance of people makes a difference that can shift the balance for that person in that situation.

BUT I have the skills I need if someone decides they need my purse more than I do (and I'm not talking as a fashion accessory) they will be warned and will walk away with less body parts than they started with if they mess with me. Funny thing is thinking that way projects an aura of "mess with me at your own risk" and I don't smell like no stinking victim so they leave me alone.

I probably just need to stop being so naive and idealistic, and... well... act more appropriately for the world I live in, as opposed to trying to be separate from all the negativity, aggression, cynicism and narcissism that seems to be strangling humanity.

I feel remiss in not having responded to yr insights, Glad2BMe. I am not feeling like addressing yr points directly, but rest assured that yr thoughts have very much been taken on board to operate as a little grist for my mental mill and I really appreciate them.

Thank you.