Well, so about treatment; when I think back through mt childhood I find very little joy. As I said I lived in an affluent neighborhood, but there were also poor and troubled people. I often wonder if it was the social pressures or the financial pressures that created the most emotional desperation.
But I was smoking marijuana by 14 years of age; and although it was illegal then and it's illegal now, evidence has been mounting about it's efficacy against anxiety. I started in order to fit in with the crowd, but I kept on for over ten years and although I had concerns about the health risks of smoking, I never did about it's effects. It's how I made it through.
But I led a double life. As I got older, I fell in with a different crowd. These kids were were clean cut motivated aspiring. They liked me, I liked them (never mind I didn't like me). So I took long hikes in the country alone were I also smoked. It was actually bliss. The only down side is the very same down side I encountered with every other medical treatment.
So, I started self medicating at 14. I gave it up in engineering school, I loved smoking pot, but I loved science more and I realized I couldn't do both. It's been twenty years and I still think someday I'll return to what worked best.
In the mean time I've been to a string of Psychiatrists and Psychologists; I've been prescribed four different types of antidepressants; and,on and of, taken up serious bouts of drinking alcohol.... Oh I have to say that a concerted program of self administered St. Johns Wart was easily as effective, with fewer side affects, than the prescription meds.
At the moment, it's been two years since I've had any king of medical insurance. I've been taking no meds. nor seeing any shrinks for over 18 months. But lack of money and lack of meds. aren't related, or rather, not in the way you might think. Everything but alcohol; Marijuana, St. John's Wart, Lithium, Prozac,... has the effect of easing stress and anxiety. That's good right? Except, easing stress tends to ease motivation (whether the joy of living or the pain and anger of suffering) and the desire to focus. In order to just hold on to my crumbling bit of life I seriously need to focus and stay motivated.
So what's a body to do?
In terms of shrinks; I guess I've developed a three point philosophy.
First: I believe any successful career has to fit with a bodies traits. I believe most shrinks are in the business because (beneath it all) they are motivated to discover what's wrong with them or some family members. This means that therapy is as much (or more) about them as it is about you.
Which leads to Second: Any effective therapy has to be a fit between your own needs and the therapists interests. There always going to try to fit you into whatever shaped hole their interested in; so you have to find a shrink who's been looking into hole shapes that fit your peg. You have to shop around. If the fit doesn't seem right, there is a therapist out there to fit your shaped peg. They are all trained differently, with different interests, and can't help everyone the same. After all, it's an extremely complex puzzle (our minds) they're looking into.
And Third...what was third now...I lost track...hang on. Oh right, Your only going to get what you give. They are not going to fix you, only guide you. They are not healers as much as gurus. We have to go into therapy armed with the motivation to pursue a new path, a course change. Otherwise, it's only coffee hour with Dr. X.
But wait, you say, my Dr. says; 'the drugs are working when the stress diminishes' (and consequently my motivation). Well exactly!; that's the trouble I have with meds. and double the trouble I have psychiatrists. Western medicine is predicated on defining problems, and using science to design solutions in total isolation with other problems and factors. The whole medical profession is fixing depression by carving the patients out of the environments; isolating there minds with meds. or the bodies with bars when they should somehow being helping them deal with their environment; with understanding, acceptance, and love. This whole industry is very troubling to me.
I'm not suggesting we all become Buddhists or that anyone should stop taking there meds. (action without knowledge is a mistake). But the fundamental difference between Occidental and Oriental medicine is; Occidental Medicine requires the isolation of the observed pathology from it's environment, while Oriental medicine believes that the observed pathology cannot, must not be isolated, can only be treated as part of a whole.
So that's my rant about meds. and shrinks. I guess one measure of success for me would be to live long enough to regress back to a blissful pot smoking wanderer. It's not on the horizon though, at present.
Hope this helps.
Once again Pilule;
Thank you for your interest.
How much longer will I have to put up with that.
Moderators: Sunlily92, windsong, BlueGobi, Moderators, Astrid
When I was in college, my medication was drinking, boy did I drink. Then I used to see a shrink for 18 years, he would see me for half an hour, he would put me on some meds and set-up an appointment 3 months later which is quite long. He also set me up with a psychologist.
When I had my worst break down ever, 2 and a half years ago, my friend, who is a nurse, set me up with this other shrink. He sees me every 3 weeks and I spend an hour with him. He’s a very cool guy. He says that he treats all of his patients like if he was a member of his family. He goes to Europe often and he gave his secretary instructions that if I called her, he would call me back. As a joke, I asked him if he would come back from Europe just for me.
He once asked me if I smoked pot, looking at me in a way that suggest that maybe I should. I once asked him, as a joke, if he didn’t go into psychiatry to help himself and he told me that in a way, since you’re in it, you can’t help analyzing your own problems.
I tried about 20 different meds and then I don’t know how many combinations of meds with no success, of course. I wanted to try Ketamine but it’s not available in Canada. I was able to track down a pharmacist that could make it only to find out that it’s not approved to treat depression. I’m beginning to think that medication in not the answer, there is lots and lots of people, on the internet, for who medication is not working. Now I don’t really know what to do.
Here in Quebec, you can see a doctor for free, and the government pays for 75% of most medication. If it wasn’t for that, I would have died a long time ago because I can’t afford to pay for all this. I feel I’m a burden to society but from all the publicity I see, about depression, it seems that the society wants to keep me around.
When I had my worst break down ever, 2 and a half years ago, my friend, who is a nurse, set me up with this other shrink. He sees me every 3 weeks and I spend an hour with him. He’s a very cool guy. He says that he treats all of his patients like if he was a member of his family. He goes to Europe often and he gave his secretary instructions that if I called her, he would call me back. As a joke, I asked him if he would come back from Europe just for me.
He once asked me if I smoked pot, looking at me in a way that suggest that maybe I should. I once asked him, as a joke, if he didn’t go into psychiatry to help himself and he told me that in a way, since you’re in it, you can’t help analyzing your own problems.
I tried about 20 different meds and then I don’t know how many combinations of meds with no success, of course. I wanted to try Ketamine but it’s not available in Canada. I was able to track down a pharmacist that could make it only to find out that it’s not approved to treat depression. I’m beginning to think that medication in not the answer, there is lots and lots of people, on the internet, for who medication is not working. Now I don’t really know what to do.
Here in Quebec, you can see a doctor for free, and the government pays for 75% of most medication. If it wasn’t for that, I would have died a long time ago because I can’t afford to pay for all this. I feel I’m a burden to society but from all the publicity I see, about depression, it seems that the society wants to keep me around.
I think it's realistic to say that I have never successfully managed my depression. You yourself labeled wealth an antidepressant. And while that may oversimplify, I believe that lacking wealth in a wealthy environment may pull all kinds of triggers. I have never had a period in my life where successfully managed my finances, my career, my emotions.
It pains me now to say this. It's not for lack of wanting or trying. I'm looking at a blank screen, a Gerhardt Richter painting. I have nothing in my past to build on. In a community of helpful people I feel totally alone. People are looking at me, asking me what it is I want, expecting me to say something, trying to help. I have a complete blank. I just want to die. (That's the first time I said that here. But full disclosure)
I was at a 4th of July celebration yesterday. Hundreds of thousands of people. Two stages, big bands, light spectacular. The weather was great. That's all I could think of. I was letting people down just by being there. That's the worst part of chronic depression. It feeds on itself and puts a wall between you and those that can help you.
It pains me now to say this. It's not for lack of wanting or trying. I'm looking at a blank screen, a Gerhardt Richter painting. I have nothing in my past to build on. In a community of helpful people I feel totally alone. People are looking at me, asking me what it is I want, expecting me to say something, trying to help. I have a complete blank. I just want to die. (That's the first time I said that here. But full disclosure)
I was at a 4th of July celebration yesterday. Hundreds of thousands of people. Two stages, big bands, light spectacular. The weather was great. That's all I could think of. I was letting people down just by being there. That's the worst part of chronic depression. It feeds on itself and puts a wall between you and those that can help you.
Last edited by Frame on Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
But, you know, depression has an evolutionary use; in all animals. Sure, like the the above mentions it separates the weak from the pack (OK, so many of you reading this would not like to be referred to as weak. And many would not want me associating depression with weakness. Not politically correct after all. But I know and you know my depression feels like a weakness.). So it set's us up for a quick kill. Kind of makes sense, like it or not.
But depression is a form of shock. (Probably why it and PTSD are so closely linked.) And even though it's been known to stop the hearts of animals and humans alike, it simultaneously has evolved as a positive survival tool. Chronic depression (shock; perhaps the same chemistry. I don't know. Somebody look it up will you.) has long term degenerative effects. But short term depression can drop us below the radar of our predators; give us a change to regroup (Oh, Re-group, unintended pun but it well works here.); allow us, say we're wounded, to heal.
Sharks and other fish hunt by detecting the electrical signals of a pounding heart. Go into flee mode and the shark homes right in. Drop to bottom in shock (which slows the heart, why some people die of a 'broken' heart) and the shark can't find you. You can hide and live to see another day.
Where am I going with this. Somebody tell me what I'm talking about. Jesus, I should be working right now....
I guess what I'm getting at (slogging through a swimming pool full of tapioca) is that; in evolutionary terms, depression can KILL you, but I think it's real purpose is for survival. It gives us a chance to hide till it's safe.
I guess my moral is: It can and should be used a time of healing.
...except for chronic pathological nut jobs like me. We just need to be put out of our misery (Sorry, Sorry; I know that was wrong. Please don't ban me. I take it back. Do as I say, not as I do.)
But depression is a form of shock. (Probably why it and PTSD are so closely linked.) And even though it's been known to stop the hearts of animals and humans alike, it simultaneously has evolved as a positive survival tool. Chronic depression (shock; perhaps the same chemistry. I don't know. Somebody look it up will you.) has long term degenerative effects. But short term depression can drop us below the radar of our predators; give us a change to regroup (Oh, Re-group, unintended pun but it well works here.); allow us, say we're wounded, to heal.
Sharks and other fish hunt by detecting the electrical signals of a pounding heart. Go into flee mode and the shark homes right in. Drop to bottom in shock (which slows the heart, why some people die of a 'broken' heart) and the shark can't find you. You can hide and live to see another day.
Where am I going with this. Somebody tell me what I'm talking about. Jesus, I should be working right now....
I guess what I'm getting at (slogging through a swimming pool full of tapioca) is that; in evolutionary terms, depression can KILL you, but I think it's real purpose is for survival. It gives us a chance to hide till it's safe.
I guess my moral is: It can and should be used a time of healing.
...except for chronic pathological nut jobs like me. We just need to be put out of our misery (Sorry, Sorry; I know that was wrong. Please don't ban me. I take it back. Do as I say, not as I do.)
Our “4th of July”, in Canada, is on the first of July, I didn’t even participate this year.
Depression makes us weak not the other way around. I won’t tell you what depression makes me feel like but it’s not pretty.
That’s why I work for myself, I make just enough money to make it to the next day and it’s very stressful and it certainly doesn’t help my situation but at least it’s harder for others (bosses) to prey on my weaknesses.
We were really have been dealt a bad hand, what kind of disease would make a perfectly healthy person want to die. I too often want to die, I take it one day at a time, I won’t die today, maybe tomorrow but not today. I often think that my life is going to end by taking it with my own hands, but not yet. I’m one bad luck away from seriously thinking about doing it but I keep my fingers crossed and I try to stay away of situations that might make me screw up big time.
Depression makes us weak not the other way around. I won’t tell you what depression makes me feel like but it’s not pretty.
That’s why I work for myself, I make just enough money to make it to the next day and it’s very stressful and it certainly doesn’t help my situation but at least it’s harder for others (bosses) to prey on my weaknesses.
We were really have been dealt a bad hand, what kind of disease would make a perfectly healthy person want to die. I too often want to die, I take it one day at a time, I won’t die today, maybe tomorrow but not today. I often think that my life is going to end by taking it with my own hands, but not yet. I’m one bad luck away from seriously thinking about doing it but I keep my fingers crossed and I try to stay away of situations that might make me screw up big time.
Risk and Roll
That's interesting Pilule; what you said about risk. It makes me think.
I guess that's not you said but the way I read it; staying away from situations with big time screw up potential. It is those high risk situations which make me feel alive. I've been self employed, trying to be a model professional for over five years now. I work six or seven days a week. Sure I make my own hours and I take off when I want, but in the back of my mind, I'm always thinking about the image I show to my clients. I've been avoiding risk (the thing that makes me feel most alive), these five years, more than amy time in my life. I haven't looked for, but risk has found me, and not the kind I might enjoy.
But it's food for thought. If thrill seeking keeps some of us alive. And tough times dampen the thrills, then where are we going? Where am I going? Where is this post going? Thank GOD for posts. Who remembers having a single phone mounted on the wall on the kitchen. We actually had to talk to our family back then. OK, I admit it; I've lost the thread.
I guess that's not you said but the way I read it; staying away from situations with big time screw up potential. It is those high risk situations which make me feel alive. I've been self employed, trying to be a model professional for over five years now. I work six or seven days a week. Sure I make my own hours and I take off when I want, but in the back of my mind, I'm always thinking about the image I show to my clients. I've been avoiding risk (the thing that makes me feel most alive), these five years, more than amy time in my life. I haven't looked for, but risk has found me, and not the kind I might enjoy.
But it's food for thought. If thrill seeking keeps some of us alive. And tough times dampen the thrills, then where are we going? Where am I going? Where is this post going? Thank GOD for posts. Who remembers having a single phone mounted on the wall on the kitchen. We actually had to talk to our family back then. OK, I admit it; I've lost the thread.
Are you a thrill seeker?
I used to be like that but things kept blowing in my face, that's why I'm more cautious now.
That's why I never married, never had a real girlfriend, never had kids, never left home, never had a decent job.
Since a very young age I was afraid that someday I would crashed and I did, many times, and crashed hard.
My life turned to be the an even worst nightmare that I could ever possibly imagine.
I used to be like that but things kept blowing in my face, that's why I'm more cautious now.
That's why I never married, never had a real girlfriend, never had kids, never left home, never had a decent job.
Since a very young age I was afraid that someday I would crashed and I did, many times, and crashed hard.
My life turned to be the an even worst nightmare that I could ever possibly imagine.
-
Alaska1958
- Posts: 178
- Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:23 pm
Hi there
Both you fellows sound a lot like me. I'm 55 and getting divorced. Been a chronic depressive since I was a teenager and am having a hellova time getting back to work. For months now I've been laying around the house listening to left wing podcasts and eating too much. I've never smoked a cigarette and can't stand the taste of alcohol, but I do love to eat. When I was 20, I weighed over 300 and was over 400 by forty years of age. At 41 I had hit 500 pounds, had insulin dependant diabetes, hypertension and slept with a CPAP machine pumping air down my throat. At that point I had gastric bypass surgery and lost 300 pounds in 18 months. No more insulin or blood pressure meds and no more cpap machine. But I still eat too much and have developed several nutritional deficiencies including osteoporosis.
I have yet to start a decade out without thinking that I doubt I'll make it to the next one. Hell there's lots of days when I doubt I'll make it to next week.
My mother is 93 now and living on her own in Maine. I've been thinking about moving in with her as I just don't think I can make it through another Alaska winter.
I was never able to stay with a course of study long enough to get any kind of degree and I've tried over and over again.
Anyway if you need someone to chat with I'd be happy to.
I have yet to start a decade out without thinking that I doubt I'll make it to the next one. Hell there's lots of days when I doubt I'll make it to next week.
My mother is 93 now and living on her own in Maine. I've been thinking about moving in with her as I just don't think I can make it through another Alaska winter.
I was never able to stay with a course of study long enough to get any kind of degree and I've tried over and over again.
Anyway if you need someone to chat with I'd be happy to.
Alaska,
Doesn't loosing all this weight make feel better, or at better about yourself?
I bet those long winter nights in Alaska is nothing to help somebody who is depressed.
Why did you move there in the first place?
Did you seek any kind of treatment for your depression? I always ask this question to maybe get some idea for what might help me. So far treatments have been unsuccessful for me.
Doesn't loosing all this weight make feel better, or at better about yourself?
I bet those long winter nights in Alaska is nothing to help somebody who is depressed.
Why did you move there in the first place?
Did you seek any kind of treatment for your depression? I always ask this question to maybe get some idea for what might help me. So far treatments have been unsuccessful for me.
-
Alaska1958
- Posts: 178
- Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:23 pm
To put it simply and honestly, I was born here and am frightened of the prospect of moving somewhere else. At least here I have my two sons and a brother and sister in law who love me. I function poorly and could easily become another homeless man.
Yes, loosing the weight was a good moral booster. In the first year or two after surgery I got back into walking and entered several races. I was never fast though, in one especially long race (19 miles) I was dead last and finished a little behind a 72 year old woman. Not that I cared, I was just glad I could finish it.
When I was 15 I was calling the local crisis line, at 19 I first walked into a mental health clinic and at 25 started using antidepressants. Been on quite a few since then. About five years ago a coworker who had her own issues with depression, was concerned about me and talked me into going into the hospital. It didn't really help. A year after that I went down to the Mayo clinic and had electro convulsive therapy for three weeks. That helped, but the timing was terrible. I was working in TV and we had just made the switch from analog to digital broadcasting. The therapy really messed with my short term memory and every single piece of equipment that I had worked with for over ten years had been pulled out and exchanged for equipment that I had had training on, but no real experience. I never was able to make the switch and was fired a few years later.
Yes, loosing the weight was a good moral booster. In the first year or two after surgery I got back into walking and entered several races. I was never fast though, in one especially long race (19 miles) I was dead last and finished a little behind a 72 year old woman. Not that I cared, I was just glad I could finish it.
When I was 15 I was calling the local crisis line, at 19 I first walked into a mental health clinic and at 25 started using antidepressants. Been on quite a few since then. About five years ago a coworker who had her own issues with depression, was concerned about me and talked me into going into the hospital. It didn't really help. A year after that I went down to the Mayo clinic and had electro convulsive therapy for three weeks. That helped, but the timing was terrible. I was working in TV and we had just made the switch from analog to digital broadcasting. The therapy really messed with my short term memory and every single piece of equipment that I had worked with for over ten years had been pulled out and exchanged for equipment that I had had training on, but no real experience. I never was able to make the switch and was fired a few years later.
Alaska,
I can understand that you don't want to leave Alaska since you were born there, specially with your kids there. I know I couldn't leave my hometown, my family, my friends.
If it makes you feel better, if I had ran this marathon you were in, I probably would have finished behind you.
I read on other post that you where worried that your two sons might suffer from depression like you. That must be stressful.
I never wanted to have kids because I didn't want to take the chance that they would suffer from depression, I never would have forgave myself, It would have killed me. I'm sure my father suffered from depression so it could be genetic.
Another reason I didn't want to have kids is since ending my life is always in the back of my mind, it would be selfish to do it if I had kids.
I have 7 nephews and nieces and I'm terrified that one of them might suffer from depression. 3 of them are in their 20's and they are doing good, much better than I did at their age. My niece, the one that's 20, is on medication, I don't know what, but she's doing great. She just finished her Bs in teaching and was asked to do a Masters degree.
I keep a close eye on them.
I can understand that you don't want to leave Alaska since you were born there, specially with your kids there. I know I couldn't leave my hometown, my family, my friends.
If it makes you feel better, if I had ran this marathon you were in, I probably would have finished behind you.
I read on other post that you where worried that your two sons might suffer from depression like you. That must be stressful.
I never wanted to have kids because I didn't want to take the chance that they would suffer from depression, I never would have forgave myself, It would have killed me. I'm sure my father suffered from depression so it could be genetic.
Another reason I didn't want to have kids is since ending my life is always in the back of my mind, it would be selfish to do it if I had kids.
I have 7 nephews and nieces and I'm terrified that one of them might suffer from depression. 3 of them are in their 20's and they are doing good, much better than I did at their age. My niece, the one that's 20, is on medication, I don't know what, but she's doing great. She just finished her Bs in teaching and was asked to do a Masters degree.
I keep a close eye on them.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 148 guests