Last December I came to DU in a very bad place. While DU was by no means my sole source of support, it did help.
Since, I've gotten stronger and am now in a much better place.
I've tried to use my experience as a point of departure in talking to you all here and folks in chat.
But the collective nihilism of this group is too much for me. I am frustrated by the venting with zero movement towards personal improvement. I can tolerate a victim mentality, but only to a point. And I have reached that point. For me, personally, DU is in danger of turning toxic.
happiness has never been a human birth right. It requires work. Effectively managing depression requires work. None of it will be handed to you.
That may sound cruel. It is not. It is a simple truth.
May you each find, at least, a modicum of peace.
Sincerely
Karl
As Much as I Can...
Moderators: windsong, BlueGobi, Moderators, Astrid
Hello nenkohai,
I have only been on this forum for a few days, but since then I have received a few responses, which have given me some positive outlook. I cannot formulate positive thoughts on my own and having at least one source is very valuable to me. This forum resembles nothing of toxicity.
Additionally, for me, and I imagine others, even talking to people in this way can sometimes be daunting and it takes strength to admit that you need help and support. If that is not hard work in itself then I don't know that is.
Perhaps I have not experienced enough of this forum to see the logic behind your arguments, but if it has helped you, even if it was along with other things then I am confused as to why you see it as such a negative thing.
On another note, I am happy to hear that you have been able to find help and improve your situation and strength. Thanks.
I have only been on this forum for a few days, but since then I have received a few responses, which have given me some positive outlook. I cannot formulate positive thoughts on my own and having at least one source is very valuable to me. This forum resembles nothing of toxicity.
Additionally, for me, and I imagine others, even talking to people in this way can sometimes be daunting and it takes strength to admit that you need help and support. If that is not hard work in itself then I don't know that is.
Perhaps I have not experienced enough of this forum to see the logic behind your arguments, but if it has helped you, even if it was along with other things then I am confused as to why you see it as such a negative thing.
On another note, I am happy to hear that you have been able to find help and improve your situation and strength. Thanks.
It may give some peace, nenkohai, to consider the flow of souls as they move through the group.
I see some people have been posting for years, some for months, some you see only once or twice. And people are free to come here for their own reasons. Nor are they asked to leave (like and insurance company might after three visits) whether they like it or not.
This space is primarily a safe space for expression. And it's focus is on depression. Thus most of the posts will be dark and struggling. Keep in mind that, for people who are not depressed, this isn't the healthiest place. So the best case scenario is for someone to seek help, get help, and leave. Sticking around isn't going to make them better-er. The bottom line, then, is your going mostly get negative posts from depressed people. That means the sights working. Not getting posts positive, may well mean someone has moved on to better things. More power to them.
Some people I've only seen post once; maybe they only needed a boost, or were just curious, or the sight didn't work for them. Some people have been here for a while because they have so little support elsewhere or have deep issues which need time to heal as well as empathy. To me, this is all good and I wouldn't want people to begin posting positive statements because the "it's time" if that's not what they need to express, not how they feel inside.
Some people just want to work on dark prose. Why not? That's what the expression section is for. Mic Jagger may use a journal, but here is good too (I'm always plugging journals).
Some people have been here for years and, even though they may be wrestling with demons of their own, I think they have other motives. They may have:
1) found a community they are comfortable with even if it tends to posit a darker side of reality. Darkness is not always negative and escape is sometimes the right choice.
2) get a sense of joy and happiness by offering support and encouragement, even if there is no immediate reaction or ultimate move to positivity. Some problems don't dissolve, but life's burdens can be lightened.
So perhaps, nenkohai, if you were to look at the forum not as a black box where depression goes in and happiness comes out; if you were to look at it more as one stop along the assembly line, putting a life together you could see we're always going to be getting a certain type of person posting and probably will never see the final product.
I see some people have been posting for years, some for months, some you see only once or twice. And people are free to come here for their own reasons. Nor are they asked to leave (like and insurance company might after three visits) whether they like it or not.
This space is primarily a safe space for expression. And it's focus is on depression. Thus most of the posts will be dark and struggling. Keep in mind that, for people who are not depressed, this isn't the healthiest place. So the best case scenario is for someone to seek help, get help, and leave. Sticking around isn't going to make them better-er. The bottom line, then, is your going mostly get negative posts from depressed people. That means the sights working. Not getting posts positive, may well mean someone has moved on to better things. More power to them.
Some people I've only seen post once; maybe they only needed a boost, or were just curious, or the sight didn't work for them. Some people have been here for a while because they have so little support elsewhere or have deep issues which need time to heal as well as empathy. To me, this is all good and I wouldn't want people to begin posting positive statements because the "it's time" if that's not what they need to express, not how they feel inside.
Some people just want to work on dark prose. Why not? That's what the expression section is for. Mic Jagger may use a journal, but here is good too (I'm always plugging journals).
Some people have been here for years and, even though they may be wrestling with demons of their own, I think they have other motives. They may have:
1) found a community they are comfortable with even if it tends to posit a darker side of reality. Darkness is not always negative and escape is sometimes the right choice.
2) get a sense of joy and happiness by offering support and encouragement, even if there is no immediate reaction or ultimate move to positivity. Some problems don't dissolve, but life's burdens can be lightened.
So perhaps, nenkohai, if you were to look at the forum not as a black box where depression goes in and happiness comes out; if you were to look at it more as one stop along the assembly line, putting a life together you could see we're always going to be getting a certain type of person posting and probably will never see the final product.
Last edited by Frame on Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
Hello Nenkohai,
I wondered where you'd escaped to! A couple of msgs you sent, a while ago, were kind and empathetic. It brought me added comfort just to know that someone else cared. So, for me this site is beneficial. (in part- because of you).
It's nice to know you're doing better, Karl. I'm sincerely happy for you! On the matter of DU, I wish to express my own thoughts on this.
DU is a place where people come who aren't exactly exhuberant about life. No offense, but one cannot expect to arrive here and find most of us preaching positivity. Most of us are here because we are not feeling 'sunny.' Therefore, we have need to vent. This venting may be 'negative'... because it's coming from a place of pain. Having others to correlate with, who understand, is a source of comfort/ healing. For this alone, DU does equate with positivity. Myself, I've given and received numerous uplifting msgs!! But this IS a depression site; We can't judge a negative attitude, nor expect 'non-depression.' D-U SAVED MY LIFE.
I wondered where you'd escaped to! A couple of msgs you sent, a while ago, were kind and empathetic. It brought me added comfort just to know that someone else cared. So, for me this site is beneficial. (in part- because of you).
It's nice to know you're doing better, Karl. I'm sincerely happy for you! On the matter of DU, I wish to express my own thoughts on this.
DU is a place where people come who aren't exactly exhuberant about life. No offense, but one cannot expect to arrive here and find most of us preaching positivity. Most of us are here because we are not feeling 'sunny.' Therefore, we have need to vent. This venting may be 'negative'... because it's coming from a place of pain. Having others to correlate with, who understand, is a source of comfort/ healing. For this alone, DU does equate with positivity. Myself, I've given and received numerous uplifting msgs!! But this IS a depression site; We can't judge a negative attitude, nor expect 'non-depression.' D-U SAVED MY LIFE.
M. Nenhohai,
I have to disagree here, happiness shouldn't take an effort. Most people, I know that are happy, don't make an effort to be happy. Most of them don't even know why the're happy. Happy people tend to do things that makes them happier, something us can't seem to do.
I have a friend that had a very successful business, but is the worse businessman. He sold it for peanuts, when he had to pay taxes and everything else, he was left with almost nothing. He was still happy and optimist. He tried building houses, he failed, he decided to go to the other side of the law and sold illegal cigarettes, he got caught.
Now he is pushing 60 years old, he met this girl the same ages as his kids that he married. He decided to grow pot, his plantation caught on fire and he got caught again. He got involved in counterfeit money with a machine he bought. You take a one dollar bill, wash it off and print $20 with it. He borrowed $50,000 to, washed them all off only to find out that the machine doesn't work. He is now around 70 and he wants to have his vasectomy reversed because his wife want's a kid. The story of my friend's life could be much longer but it will get boring. He's still happy and still makes these ridiculous plans.
Among my friends, he's the most talented to screw things up.
I telling this story only to show that no mater what, some people are always happy and eternal optimist, and it might get a laugh or two.
I have to disagree here, happiness shouldn't take an effort. Most people, I know that are happy, don't make an effort to be happy. Most of them don't even know why the're happy. Happy people tend to do things that makes them happier, something us can't seem to do.
I have a friend that had a very successful business, but is the worse businessman. He sold it for peanuts, when he had to pay taxes and everything else, he was left with almost nothing. He was still happy and optimist. He tried building houses, he failed, he decided to go to the other side of the law and sold illegal cigarettes, he got caught.
Now he is pushing 60 years old, he met this girl the same ages as his kids that he married. He decided to grow pot, his plantation caught on fire and he got caught again. He got involved in counterfeit money with a machine he bought. You take a one dollar bill, wash it off and print $20 with it. He borrowed $50,000 to, washed them all off only to find out that the machine doesn't work. He is now around 70 and he wants to have his vasectomy reversed because his wife want's a kid. The story of my friend's life could be much longer but it will get boring. He's still happy and still makes these ridiculous plans.
Among my friends, he's the most talented to screw things up.
I telling this story only to show that no mater what, some people are always happy and eternal optimist, and it might get a laugh or two.
Failmenot,
I agree with you, he always has BIG dreams but his many failures never discourage him, he's never down, much less depressed. Mania is a pretty good description of him. Of course he is the poster boy for optimism, very few people are like him, he's the only only one I know who has such a positive outlook on life.
My point is that for "normal" people, happiness is part of their genes, they don't need to work at it.
As for my friend, the stories I told you are just the tip of the iceberg. When my friends and me start talking about his adventures, it can last an evening.
I agree with you, he always has BIG dreams but his many failures never discourage him, he's never down, much less depressed. Mania is a pretty good description of him. Of course he is the poster boy for optimism, very few people are like him, he's the only only one I know who has such a positive outlook on life.
My point is that for "normal" people, happiness is part of their genes, they don't need to work at it.
As for my friend, the stories I told you are just the tip of the iceberg. When my friends and me start talking about his adventures, it can last an evening.
Hi Pilule,
You stated, "Among my friends, he is the most talented to screw things up," Just have to say your statement cracked me up! He does sound like quite the character!
I totally agree with your main point. Some people do not have to work at optimism; It comes naturally for some. I've also known people like this! I'm thinking how nice it would be to have just HALF of that perpetual positivity...Sure would be nice.
You stated, "Among my friends, he is the most talented to screw things up," Just have to say your statement cracked me up! He does sound like quite the character!
I totally agree with your main point. Some people do not have to work at optimism; It comes naturally for some. I've also known people like this! I'm thinking how nice it would be to have just HALF of that perpetual positivity...Sure would be nice.
My friend Part II
My friend's home town is 600 miles from where we live. He bought this little pick-up truck that needed work. He fixed it up real nice and brought it back home to sell it because he can get a better price over there. On his way home, he had an accident and damaged the side of the truck. Now he has a wrecked truck and no money to fix it. Once back home he convinced his mother that her house needed a new roof and he would take care of it. She gave him $3,000 to buy the material that he promptly used to fix his truck. Now he doesn't have the money to redo the roof and his truck is not selling. His brothers and sisters wanted to lynch him and kick him out of town. I don't know if he ended up fixing the roof though.
Another time, he borrowed his son's car to go back home. The quickest way to get there is through a park that is 75 miles long and the only thing in the park is a service station. In the middle of the park, he fell asleep and drove in a snow bank. He went so deep in the snow bank that he couldn't open the door, he had to dig his way out through the window. Luckily for him, it happened not to far from the service station so he went and woke up the owner so he could pull him out.
He had a car repair shop for a while and when he wanted to go back home, he would take the nicest car in the lot, without telling the client, and drive it back home. I went with him on one these trip. We had to go to the next town and we where late, he drove this little Honda Accord at up to 140 MPH, he was driving in the middle of the road because when he hit a bump, the car wouldn't always land in the middle of the lane, so it gave room to correct the car. I never thought that these cars could go so fast, I spent about an hour in hell, I was so scared.
My friend's home town is 600 miles from where we live. He bought this little pick-up truck that needed work. He fixed it up real nice and brought it back home to sell it because he can get a better price over there. On his way home, he had an accident and damaged the side of the truck. Now he has a wrecked truck and no money to fix it. Once back home he convinced his mother that her house needed a new roof and he would take care of it. She gave him $3,000 to buy the material that he promptly used to fix his truck. Now he doesn't have the money to redo the roof and his truck is not selling. His brothers and sisters wanted to lynch him and kick him out of town. I don't know if he ended up fixing the roof though.
Another time, he borrowed his son's car to go back home. The quickest way to get there is through a park that is 75 miles long and the only thing in the park is a service station. In the middle of the park, he fell asleep and drove in a snow bank. He went so deep in the snow bank that he couldn't open the door, he had to dig his way out through the window. Luckily for him, it happened not to far from the service station so he went and woke up the owner so he could pull him out.
He had a car repair shop for a while and when he wanted to go back home, he would take the nicest car in the lot, without telling the client, and drive it back home. I went with him on one these trip. We had to go to the next town and we where late, he drove this little Honda Accord at up to 140 MPH, he was driving in the middle of the road because when he hit a bump, the car wouldn't always land in the middle of the lane, so it gave room to correct the car. I never thought that these cars could go so fast, I spent about an hour in hell, I was so scared.
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