Hi
Not really sure if I should be here. I don't think I'm really depressed, as in clinically, I just feel a general low grade, background dullness/anger/hopelessness/regret most of the time. There are of course times when I'm happy and chatty, but lately the background blues seem to be more constant. I have a partner of 18 years and our daughter who is 16. I am so very glad that he and she get on so well, I never got on with my dad at all, hated him when I was a kid cos he shouted at me all the time. Now I just feel neutral towards him. ( he has been diagnosed with bowel cancer and I'm like 'meh. Hope they can fix it).
But I suppose it's my partner who gives me the most...internal conflict. I do love him, he's my best friend, the best friend I ever had, but lately, it seems as if I'm not even sure he likes me. And I'm afraid to ask him, because of what the answer might be, but also because he might turn it back on me and ask me if I like him. And I'm not sure what my answer would be now. I've become very quiet around him because I feel like I can't speak civilly to him. Because I'm passive aggressive, and it always seem to come out around him, or my daughter. I don't seem to be able to express my opinions in an assertive, non angry manner, which gets his back up, and he is more intelligent than I, and more assertive and eloquent ( and this is not me putting myself down, it's just fact). So I've been biting my tongue more and more, which of course just makes the anger boil around inside me more, and not being able to express it, brings me down.
I'm not suicidal, I couldn't do that to them and because of my beliefs (I'm Buddhist), but I sometimes think about running away, something I haven't done since my teens and 20's. I doubt that I would, at least whilst my daughter is still at school, but I have started putting money by, just in case. If nothing comes of it, then it can be used for a holiday or something.
So that's my story. I spose I could go to the Dr, but I've pretty much lost faith in them since my last few visits for other ailments, and I don't want to get drugs thrown at me to see what sticks. I was once given Amitryptiline for depression and I felt like shit, and how I didn't get knocked down crossing roads whilst on it I will never know.
Could be I'm just having a bad day today. Just good to have somewher eI can get this stuff out and not have to worry about repurcussions or judgements or embarrassed 'aw, so sorry' *hugs*. Not really the sort of thing I want to put on facebook!
DHS
Low grade down-ness
Moderators: windsong, BlueGobi, Moderators, Astrid
I'm glad the forum is of use to you. It isn't necessary to wait for the deepest throws of depression. It's good that your thinking things through and it may be people can take some insight from your post. So Thanks.
I share your thoughts on both Buddhism and medication. Medication sort of serves to carve me away from my concerns, my daily life, my problems, reality, ...pleasure too. Meditation, if you do it right, requires some amount of conformity with the Buddhist paradigm and reconnects us to the world, to the pleasure and the pain.
I share your thoughts on both Buddhism and medication. Medication sort of serves to carve me away from my concerns, my daily life, my problems, reality, ...pleasure too. Meditation, if you do it right, requires some amount of conformity with the Buddhist paradigm and reconnects us to the world, to the pleasure and the pain.
the buddhist saying is ' pain is certain , suffering is optional .'
i think that is right .
i am a very honest person, i do not believe in telling lies , so in my life there is nothing hidden, in my work, relationship, how i speak ,some people find that confronting that i tell the truth, but without truth you have random words floating around the ether ,meaningless , lonely ,without purpose.
so i think that talking to your partner in an open an honest way is for the best. otherwise resentments build unknowingly . of course that is just my opinion, but it works for me.
i have watched many relationships built on lies . the other buddhist saying that comes to mind is' there are three things that you can not hide for long, the sun , the moon , and the truth.
we have pain , but we can stop some of our suffering by speaking the truth.
take care
i think that is right .
i am a very honest person, i do not believe in telling lies , so in my life there is nothing hidden, in my work, relationship, how i speak ,some people find that confronting that i tell the truth, but without truth you have random words floating around the ether ,meaningless , lonely ,without purpose.
so i think that talking to your partner in an open an honest way is for the best. otherwise resentments build unknowingly . of course that is just my opinion, but it works for me.
i have watched many relationships built on lies . the other buddhist saying that comes to mind is' there are three things that you can not hide for long, the sun , the moon , and the truth.
we have pain , but we can stop some of our suffering by speaking the truth.
take care
I hope I regain some mindfulness soon, fallen. I'd like to do some prosaic harmonizing.fallen wrote:' pain is certain , suffering is optional .'
without truth you have random words floating around the ether, meaningless, lonely, without purpose.
' there are three things that you can not hide for long, the sun, the moon, and the truth.
Nice ideas. Not sure I completely agree with the truth bit, but if I was a betting man I'd bet that your right and I'm wrong [That is, assuming there is a right and a wrong].
What agenda does your partner have? That is to ask the question: what's the highest authority that your partner subjects to and acts on? If he ultimately subjects to his mind’s image of things, rather than to life or the universe itself; to the relative instead of to absolute truth, then there is likely to be conflict. If you think you cannot see what he’s acting on - what’s his greatest authority - then ask the same question about yourself. What do you subject to? What is the ultimate and final authority that rules how you relate to life?
If this way of looking at things does not seem sensible to you - if you do not understand what I’m trying to say here - then look at things in this way instead: in certain moments of your communication you’re probably desperately reaching out to him, implicitly (or explicitly) begging him to dismiss his reasoning for a moment and just show you some acceptance, affection and give some space for understanding. Is he then capable of meeting your plea? It’s a shift of perspective from his side; to stop trying to push his agenda for a moment and, like I said, just give you some space to breathe because he sees that you’re clearly suffering from the situation? Is he capable of taking a step back and relax the moment a bit for the sole purpose of giving you space to come out of a desperate state and into a more relaxed state? Does he seem capable of doing this instead of enforcing his reasoning on the moment as the highest authority every time things actually count?
By the way, you don't need to answer all these questions explicitly here in the forums or whatever. Of course it could be done that way and we could discuss things from there if you deem that approach meaningful, but I mainly wrote them for yourself to genuinely reflect on.
As a side-note; meditation can of course help greatly, both in short and in long terms.
vimeo: True Meditation
This is probably what specifically resonates best for me in terms on meditation, but of course I don’t know what’s meaningful and practical to you.
If this way of looking at things does not seem sensible to you - if you do not understand what I’m trying to say here - then look at things in this way instead: in certain moments of your communication you’re probably desperately reaching out to him, implicitly (or explicitly) begging him to dismiss his reasoning for a moment and just show you some acceptance, affection and give some space for understanding. Is he then capable of meeting your plea? It’s a shift of perspective from his side; to stop trying to push his agenda for a moment and, like I said, just give you some space to breathe because he sees that you’re clearly suffering from the situation? Is he capable of taking a step back and relax the moment a bit for the sole purpose of giving you space to come out of a desperate state and into a more relaxed state? Does he seem capable of doing this instead of enforcing his reasoning on the moment as the highest authority every time things actually count?
By the way, you don't need to answer all these questions explicitly here in the forums or whatever. Of course it could be done that way and we could discuss things from there if you deem that approach meaningful, but I mainly wrote them for yourself to genuinely reflect on.
As a side-note; meditation can of course help greatly, both in short and in long terms.
vimeo: True Meditation
This is probably what specifically resonates best for me in terms on meditation, but of course I don’t know what’s meaningful and practical to you.
-
DarkHorseSpirit
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:36 pm
Thank you for all your replies, I'm touched, and appreciate all your inputs.
Elysium; I think I understand what you're saying. And yes, I think his highest authority is himself. He has no religious belief system. And yes, it would be good to be able to say what I think, what I feel, without him charging in and trying to 'fix' it. Or getting angry with me, or stopping me from crying, (although I know that most men can't deal with crying and totally misunderstand how it works.) It might be possible. But it's so much a matter of timing. A time when he's not busy with something else, or in a bad mood because of work (which is happening a LOT at them moment), or tired, and I'm not tired, and so on and so on. My highest authority? I would like to say Dharma. I try to make it Dharma. But of course, I'm a Buddhist, not a Buddha, and so I'm always filled with self cherishing, and my feelings take control. And of course, that is Why I get depressed.
And I know that meditation would help. I've been a Buddhist for years, and yet, I've never built a meditation practise. The reason? I fall asleep. Always. Even when I was going to structured classes, with 2 meditation sessions in, it was always a fight to stay awake. I am always tired. Even when I wake up in the morning. As soon as I am sitting, unoccupied, relaxing, eyes closed or even half open, that's it, it's like I've given myself permission to doze off. And so I have to focus on the meditation break for my practise. But it means that my mental discipline is rubbish.
Anyway, that's enough waffle.
Elysium; I think I understand what you're saying. And yes, I think his highest authority is himself. He has no religious belief system. And yes, it would be good to be able to say what I think, what I feel, without him charging in and trying to 'fix' it. Or getting angry with me, or stopping me from crying, (although I know that most men can't deal with crying and totally misunderstand how it works.) It might be possible. But it's so much a matter of timing. A time when he's not busy with something else, or in a bad mood because of work (which is happening a LOT at them moment), or tired, and I'm not tired, and so on and so on. My highest authority? I would like to say Dharma. I try to make it Dharma. But of course, I'm a Buddhist, not a Buddha, and so I'm always filled with self cherishing, and my feelings take control. And of course, that is Why I get depressed.
And I know that meditation would help. I've been a Buddhist for years, and yet, I've never built a meditation practise. The reason? I fall asleep. Always. Even when I was going to structured classes, with 2 meditation sessions in, it was always a fight to stay awake. I am always tired. Even when I wake up in the morning. As soon as I am sitting, unoccupied, relaxing, eyes closed or even half open, that's it, it's like I've given myself permission to doze off. And so I have to focus on the meditation break for my practise. But it means that my mental discipline is rubbish.
Anyway, that's enough waffle.
-
DarkHorseSpirit
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:36 pm
fallen wrote:the buddhist saying is ' pain is certain , suffering is optional .'
i think that is right .
i am a very honest person, i do not believe in telling lies , so in my life there is nothing hidden, in my work, relationship, how i speak ,some people find that confronting that i tell the truth, but without truth you have random words floating around the ether ,meaningless , lonely ,without purpose.
so i think that talking to your partner in an open an honest way is for the best. otherwise resentments build unknowingly . of course that is just my opinion, but it works for me.
i have watched many relationships built on lies . the other buddhist saying that comes to mind is' there are three things that you can not hide for long, the sun , the moon , and the truth.
we have pain , but we can stop some of our suffering by speaking the truth.
take care
Dear Fallen
I too find it exceedingly hard to lie. The best I can usually do is abstain from saying anything. And so this is what I usually do. Not only because other people, including my partner, don't really want to hear the truth, but mainly because of the way I say it. I tend to come over passive-aggressive, or just plain aggressive. And this puts his back up, understandably, but I find it so, extremely hard, to think of ways to speak that aren't aggressive. So silence is the safest course or at least that's how it seems to me.
'pain is certain suffering is optional.' Suffering is a perception, the whole way we experience the world, is down to our perception. Mind is the creator of all, this is what Buddha said and I believe this to be true. It's just that I can't control the way I perceive things. If I could do this, then I would be a Buddha, because nothing would affect me if I chose not to let it.
You had to say waffles, didn't you?
Now I'm hungry. But Jack Kornfield once said he was practicing in some Eastern Country and couldn't stay awake. So his teacher made him meditate, sitting on the edge of a well. Sometimes we need to do things that seems extreme to get the meditation ball rolling then things start to balance.
It also occurs to me to wonder how the Buddha might view our responsibility to speak. I've mentioned the three tests for speech: 1. Truth 2. Helpfulness and 3. Timeliness. These are tests to pass in order to speak. But I wonder if we pass these three hurdles, do we not then have a responisibility to speak?
Now I'm hungry. But Jack Kornfield once said he was practicing in some Eastern Country and couldn't stay awake. So his teacher made him meditate, sitting on the edge of a well. Sometimes we need to do things that seems extreme to get the meditation ball rolling then things start to balance.
It also occurs to me to wonder how the Buddha might view our responsibility to speak. I've mentioned the three tests for speech: 1. Truth 2. Helpfulness and 3. Timeliness. These are tests to pass in order to speak. But I wonder if we pass these three hurdles, do we not then have a responisibility to speak?
"Suffering is optional. "
Many years now, since I first heard that sutra. I have attempted to understand, to recognize, to find my path.
Lately, however, my thoughts have lead me to a space where signs, meaning, and options rear their head at me. And occurs that making suffering optional is all well and good but any option has to have at least one other. What, then is the alternative? And don't attempt the trick that the alternative to suffering is NOT suffering. We can just as easily say the alternative to suffering is death.
What, then, are the options? Any one who has followed me for a bit, has read me say that a big part of depression is the loss of perspective; the loss of peripheral vision; a narrowing of options. Yes? OK. So "suffering is optional. " What are the option? This is important, not just in a philosophical way but, in a boots to the ground war on depression sort of way.
A big part of fighting depression is preparation, being aware when things are better that it will be back, having tools and habits and 'options' . I hope no one feels I am being ornery. I want to know for the good of the forum: What are some options to suffering? I think it's a list worth making, especially on a Monday morning.
Many years now, since I first heard that sutra. I have attempted to understand, to recognize, to find my path.
Lately, however, my thoughts have lead me to a space where signs, meaning, and options rear their head at me. And occurs that making suffering optional is all well and good but any option has to have at least one other. What, then is the alternative? And don't attempt the trick that the alternative to suffering is NOT suffering. We can just as easily say the alternative to suffering is death.
What, then, are the options? Any one who has followed me for a bit, has read me say that a big part of depression is the loss of perspective; the loss of peripheral vision; a narrowing of options. Yes? OK. So "suffering is optional. " What are the option? This is important, not just in a philosophical way but, in a boots to the ground war on depression sort of way.
A big part of fighting depression is preparation, being aware when things are better that it will be back, having tools and habits and 'options' . I hope no one feels I am being ornery. I want to know for the good of the forum: What are some options to suffering? I think it's a list worth making, especially on a Monday morning.
In my opinion, suffering is 'human.'
Of course, there are ways in which we can minimize suffering, but there is no way to get around it entirely.
For example, if one experiences loss through the passing of a loved one, the grieving process should be experienced- not ignored. This manner of suffering can eventually bring about healing though.
Mental suffering. Emotional suffering...Physical...Spiritual...Needless to say, there's a whole mosaic of ways in which people can suffer! I don't think it's so much a question of IF we do suffer. After all, we're not robots who are fortunate enough to lack in this area! Just plug me in, please. Haha.
Suffering is a part of the human experience, but so are choices. For the most part, we can opt for ways to better deal with it. (or manage it) We can either make ours, or another person's suffering, a bit more comfortable, or choose to prolong it by wallowing in it.
I know I'm not the only one who's met someone who actually enjoys it! Some people aren't truly happy unless they find something to suffer about!...Are they really suffering then? Hmm. Strange.
It's all a matter of perspective. We can lighten the load of our suffering, (if it's possible) or we can weigh ourselves down further by it. Sometimes, there's nothing we can do to alter it, but just survive it.
Of course, there are ways in which we can minimize suffering, but there is no way to get around it entirely.
For example, if one experiences loss through the passing of a loved one, the grieving process should be experienced- not ignored. This manner of suffering can eventually bring about healing though.
Mental suffering. Emotional suffering...Physical...Spiritual...Needless to say, there's a whole mosaic of ways in which people can suffer! I don't think it's so much a question of IF we do suffer. After all, we're not robots who are fortunate enough to lack in this area! Just plug me in, please. Haha.
Suffering is a part of the human experience, but so are choices. For the most part, we can opt for ways to better deal with it. (or manage it) We can either make ours, or another person's suffering, a bit more comfortable, or choose to prolong it by wallowing in it.
I know I'm not the only one who's met someone who actually enjoys it! Some people aren't truly happy unless they find something to suffer about!...Are they really suffering then? Hmm. Strange.
It's all a matter of perspective. We can lighten the load of our suffering, (if it's possible) or we can weigh ourselves down further by it. Sometimes, there's nothing we can do to alter it, but just survive it.
-
DarkHorseSpirit
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:36 pm
Y'know what? Sometimes I think I am guilty of wallowing in it. And I have wondered about this. Is it hereditary? (my mum) Or am I getting something out of it? The only answer I can come up with for that one is that feeling bad, or angry is at least feeling something, rather than the bland nothingness I feel a lot of the time.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 108 guests